00:00:29 G'Night dmess 00:00:35 currently have a LiteON cdrw thats almost bulletproof 00:00:45 yeah liteon is good 00:00:55 I got a thing called a cybermax 00:00:57 cheap too 00:01:13 the cybermax is slightly cheaper than the liteon which I looked at 00:01:38 there's a cheaper one... 00:01:46 but this drive rox I've burnt over 400 discs with it so far 00:02:01 and it hasn't skipped a beat 00:02:09 cool 00:02:23 yeah it's a hmm what is this thing? 00:03:01 http://69.249.77.18:10000/projects/system/CW078D/CW078D_products.asp.html 00:03:04 that's it 00:03:13 was like $32 when I bought it 00:04:17 it even came with a free drink coaster 00:05:05 cool... the wifey 'll burn ANYTHING at 52X 00:05:21 yeah this thing's a couple of years old now 00:05:37 its an LG 00:06:09 I've only seen real speeds of about 32X out of it 00:07:14 but i never have used higher than 40X discs in it 00:07:23 still good considering the 1st one i bought in 1997 cost about a G 00:07:37 yeah my Plextor set me back a good piece 00:08:12 and it was never 10th the drive this thing is 00:08:25 idiot me i bought an HP anchor 00:08:31 buy the cheapest it's the best! 00:09:16 "Woohoo!" I just re-floored the shop. It took all of 4 pieces.. :) 00:09:50 too much whinin for 1/2 hours work... 00:10:09 yeah how fire retardant is this stuff? 00:10:32 im off o read some...be well all... ; ) 00:10:43 prolly NOT... 00:10:57 not good to weld on? 00:10:57 dmess has quit 00:11:08 Probably more fire retardant than the plywood floor under it. :) 00:11:22 plywood doesn't really burn it just blackens 00:11:42 * Phydbleep is in luck... This matting is already black.. 00:11:46 I guess with a really big piece of slag dripped ont oit 00:12:21 really welding on concrete scares me a little the slag goes skittering around on it 00:12:31 I always wonder where they run off to :) 00:13:34 To plot global domination of course.. 00:14:21 I got a welding project going on now 00:18:12 jmkasunich has joined #emc 00:20:10 bradleyb has joined #emc 00:20:48 hi, i have a question about limit and home switches 00:21:04 anyone out there? 00:21:14 dunno if I can help, but what is the question? 00:21:28 i have a debian version of emc 00:21:37 a BDI? 00:22:10 i'm not sure exactly which version it is, but it was all precompiled and installed with the os 00:22:31 sounds like BDI-4.xx 00:23:05 the question is i can see in io-show the switches tripping the correct ports. 00:23:10 yes, that is it. 00:23:11 bradleyb: 'cat /proc/version' 00:23:46 bradleyb: That will tell you the kernel version which will tell use the BDI version. 00:23:54 s/use/us 00:24:12 or uname -r 00:24:40 Linux version 2.6.9-adeos (root@B.124) (gcc version 2.95.4 20011002 (Debian prerelease)) #1 Sun Dec 19 15:52:35 GMT 2004 00:24:56 uname -r on BDI-4.20 says "2.6.10-adeos", is that what you have? 00:25:26 yes, i have 2.6.9 though 00:25:37 ok, I think that is BDI-4.18 00:25:47 the EMC on those two is pretty much the same tho 00:25:54 ok. 00:25:57 problem is this. 00:26:15 in show-io it looks like proper ports are being triggered, 00:26:26 but they have no effect on the program. nothing happens. 00:26:49 in the ini file the settings are 00:26:49 Your home/limit switches aren't reading? 00:26:56 the default ini file (machine configuration) doesn't use limits 00:27:06 how are they enabled? 00:27:20 good question 00:27:30 I haven't used switches with emc1 00:27:38 * Phydbleep is not sure.. Rebuilding a machine to try emc2.. 00:27:50 and the way its done in emc2 is completely different, so that won't help you 00:28:10 so emc2 is totally different? 00:28:23 not a thing where i could just compile that and give it a whirl? 00:28:41 Yeah, I'm going to 2 to see if it will work with my lathe. 00:28:44 unfortunately emc2 won't compile on your BDI-4.xx system 00:28:50 oh. 00:29:16 (the emc2 build system hasn't been updated to work with version 2.6 of the kernel yet, and BDI-4 uses 2.6) 00:29:32 right ... 00:29:50 Ah.. So that was my error with trying it on the other box. :) 00:29:56 I have every reason to believe that the BDI-4 emc will work with switches 00:30:02 the question is how to configure it 00:30:37 i wondered if the trick was a change to the ini file or if i have to recompile emc with different settings built in. 00:30:42 (actually, I have one nagging doubt. there is a compile time switch that can disable switches, I wonder if Paul set it when he compiled the BDI-4 emc?) 00:31:32 maybe that is what i should explore, because it seemed like there wasn't a switch in the ini file 00:31:37 only polarity. 00:31:53 let me check a few things 00:36:24 * Phydbleep goes to finish emptying the truck.. 00:40:33 bradleyb: unfortunately I can't tell right now whether switches are enabled in the BDI-4 build 00:40:52 they're in there, but I don't know how to enable them 00:41:06 I'm looking at emcmot.c, and there are limit switch checks there 00:41:20 do you know if there are special notes for compiling on debian? 00:41:31 do you just specify the platform? 00:41:36 i guess i could just try it. 00:41:39 but they're wrapped in #ifdef NO_SWITCHES, aren't they? 00:41:41 (unfortunately, I'm doing it on SF CVS, so I can't grep) 00:41:53 nope 00:42:20 bradley: compiling on BDI-4 is non-trivial, but there is a step-by-step proceedure on the emc wiki 00:42:30 URL in a moment (once I find it) 00:43:03 http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_Install 00:43:12 thanks. 00:43:29 I'm looking in the function emcmotController, if you want to see what I'm seeing 00:43:38 SWP: I just checked out the BDI-4 branch 00:43:52 ah - so you can grep :) 00:43:52 sure, gimme line numbers 00:44:11 uh - SourceForge doesn't mark up the files with line numbers 00:44:49 oh 00:45:31 look around line 450 or so 00:45:39 (+/- 10-20) 00:45:42 that looked helpful. 00:45:45 anyway, I just remembered that the "NO_SWITCHES" ifdef is in the homing code, to eliminate some strange stuff that happened on the sherline, where "HOME" really means "zero position without moving" 00:45:54 ah 00:46:05 should have no effect on limits themselves, you are right the code should still be checking them 00:46:17 i have to go to a meeting. 00:46:25 I don't see where the ini file parameters are loaded though 00:46:41 bradleyp: post on the emc-users list for better help 00:46:42 sorry to leave in the middle of this. 00:47:15 will you be on later? 00:47:24 maybe an hour or so 00:47:42 the real experts are on the users list 00:47:43 ok, i'll try then. thanks again for your help though. 00:47:53 i'll try that too. 00:47:55 bye 00:48:06 bradleyb has quit 00:48:09 SWP: there are some files that handle ini parsing, looking for them now 00:48:36 I see some in libnml, are those used by everything? 00:48:48 libnml/inifile/* 00:49:42 src/emc/nml_intf/ini*.cc 00:49:43 I think 00:50:14 pemmet has quit 00:50:16 I think libnml/inifile is the generic parser, called by the ini*.cc files 00:50:24 ah - OK 00:51:40 well - iniaxis doesn't read the limit switch I/O indices from the ini file - only the polarity 00:51:47 yep 00:51:58 the indexes may be hardcoded somewhere 00:52:03 or not 00:52:18 looks like they are - maybe in a header file (if we're lucky) 00:52:25 that is something HAL was trying to eliminate, so I paid very little attention to the old way 00:52:28 aren 00:52:32 indeed 00:52:52 I'd love to get to know HAL, 00:52:55 aren't the switch inputs on the 2nd parport? (or am I thinking of the bridgeport I/O?) 00:53:22 bridgeportio uses the second - that's why minimill exists (so you can use only one port) 00:53:34 ok 00:53:42 bptio also adds coolant, brake, and other things you'd find on a large mill 00:54:00 that makes sense - the first port is realtime (steps out, limits in), the second port is non-realtime 00:54:20 well without bradley here, we can't figure out what is wrong 00:54:38 Maybe we can, but there's less impetus :) 00:55:00 I should boot my emc machine so I can use grep, but I have a bunch of other stuff to do 00:55:06 re: "I'd love to get to know HAL", have you seen the Hal_Intro document? 00:55:23 I'll finally read through the HAL document while I'm on vacation next week 00:55:34 I have read part of it, but not gotten through the whole thing 00:55:43 it is kinda long 00:55:46 It looks like the type of thing I would do, though 00:55:52 but it's the best way to learn about HAL tho 00:56:12 HAL is pretty simple in concept, but flexible enough to be complex to use 00:56:20 yeah, that is a problem 00:56:30 config files can get complicated 00:56:47 basically, a HAL config is something like a circuit netlist 00:56:49 That's why the discussions of schematic-like configurators 00:57:10 and netlists are things that lend themselves to graphical, rather than text display 00:57:13 Could someone look at the controller/drivers in this page and tell me if they are using a current limiting resistor or a (PWM) chopper circuit? http://www.pilotltd.net/cnc.htm 00:58:33 I think the L297 is a chopper drive, but I'm not sure 00:58:59 there's a comment on the schematic that says "J2 Pin 3 - Phase or inhibit chopping", so I think it's a chopper drive 00:59:32 I just like this guy's thinking, but hasn't responded to my email 00:59:40 yeah. the power stage appears to be an H-bridge (never heard of a L6203, but it seems like a half-bridge to me) 01:01:03 The resistors he calls for just seemed screwy to me 01:01:29 they're all standard values 01:02:00 I think the r4/r6 and r5/r7 pairs are for chopping speed setting 01:02:09 Not the values, the type.... TO220 style 01:02:36 "Note: Do NOT use wirewound types!" 01:02:39 where did you see that? 01:02:49 http://www.pilotltd.net/images/L6203.gif 01:02:55 in the notes, bottom left 01:03:01 ah 01:03:12 R4-5-6-7 are the current sensing resistors 01:03:37 ok, so theri for sensing, not limiting.... cool 01:03:54 they need to handle significant current (hence the TO-220 package) and have low inductance to avoid false triggering of the chopper circuits during switching 01:03:54 so bascially a current shunt 01:03:58 you'd think that, but it really depends on the function of the VREF pin 01:03:59 yes 01:04:16 nop - on the function of the SEN pin - sorry 01:04:19 nope 01:04:22 I never even heard of TO220 resistors before 01:04:51 I bet Vref sets the chopping level, and SEN1 and SEN2 are compared to Vref to turn off the FETs when the current gets high enough 01:05:33 jmkasunich there's even an optional circuit to shut off current after 1 or 5 minutes of no usage 01:05:58 oh right - I didn't notice that those are sent back to the L297 01:06:31 yeah, the SEN pin of the L6203 is probably the source of the low side FET 01:07:18 * jmkasunich googles L6203 01:08:29 those are very expensive resistors 01:08:32 duh - it's a full H bridge - the circuit controls two motors 01:08:36 like $5.50 each 01:08:55 SENSE of the L6203 is the low side source terminal 01:08:59 SWPadnos Eh, but how often are you going to blow up a resistor? 01:09:19 probably other resistors can be used, as long as they can handle the watts and are non-inductive 01:09:35 well - DigiKey only has to220 (1-ohm) in 20W or 35W ratings 01:09:59 if I was building it, I'd use several smaller resistors in parallel 01:10:43 I don't know what voltage the L297 expects to see on it's sense pin 01:11:07 the L6203 is rated 5A max, he has 0.5ohm, which would be 2.5V at 5A 01:11:19 that's 12.5W, no wonder he needs TO-220 resistors 01:11:38 most PWM controllers can use a lower sense voltage, around 1 or 1.5V 01:11:45 datasheet at http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/ST%20Micro/Web%20Data/L297.pdf 01:12:52 but that line is just dropped through the resistors to power ground - how does that sense anything? 01:12:54 duh again, I just realized that two H bridges drives ONE stepper motor 01:12:58 * jmkasunich is being dense today 01:12:59 rayh has joined #emc 01:13:03 righto - I was going to say :) 01:13:17 current flows out of the sense pin of the L6203, thru the resistor 01:13:20 you're too used to servos 01:13:35 that develops a voltage which goes to the L297 and is compared to Vref 01:14:04 It seems silly to pump that much power through the sense pin though 01:15:12 you mean the sense pin of the 6203? or the 297? 01:15:22 the 297 01:16:01 nevermind - the 6203 pumps all current *out* the sense pin (that's the drain on the internal FETS) 01:16:03 the current doesn't go there 01:16:12 source 01:16:20 ground side :) 01:16:24 yeah 01:16:38 I almost called it emitter - too much work with IGBTs 01:17:06 (I got a 1 on that quiz in college, because I correctly filled in my name and the date - every other answer was opposite) 01:17:40 Vref on the 297 is allowed to go from 0 to 3 volts, but if it was me, I'd use something like 1V for max current 01:18:01 jmkasunich any benefit for what he's doing? 01:18:03 would require good layout for noise immunity, but much less watts in the sense resistors 01:18:34 higher voltage across the sense resistors makes it less sensitive to switching noise 01:18:50 and other noise in general 01:18:58 and lets you use higher value resistors (for example if you can't find anything less than 1 ohm) 01:19:12 but wastes power in the resistors 01:19:36 ah,ok 01:19:37 for 5A at 1V full scale, you'd need 0.2 ohm 01:19:46 at 5 watts 01:20:05 I'd probably try to use 5 resistors in parallel, 1 ohm, 1watt each 01:20:10 4 1ohm in parallel (close enough) 01:20:19 (that would be pushing the power rating of the resistors tho) 01:20:38 I don't know if the circuit designer was really going for 5A, or something less 01:20:49 no, he says 5a 01:21:06 then his resistors need to handle 12.5W total at 5A 01:21:15 the driver is only rated for 4A 01:21:25 WTF?! 0.005 ohm 60w resistor 01:21:27 (at least the 6203) 01:21:55 RMS is 4A, peak is 5A - didn't see that 01:22:11 Ah 01:22:34 RdsON is 0.3 ohms, and he's using a 0.5 ohm sense resistor - more loss in the resistor than in the Fets... 01:22:54 I really dont need that much power, but I've been reading that ppl have been blowing ther driver boards lately. thought the added "cushion" might be a nice thing 01:23:14 yeah, overbuilding is usually a good thing 01:23:54 well - I've seen a 25 micro-ohm 100W current sense resistor 01:24:15 I also like the fact his board is 4 axis, home, limit, and even 2 relay ports to boot 01:24:16 4-wire connections I assume 01:24:27 on the resistor? 01:24:29 Yeah, Design/Build for %300overload. 01:24:36 yeah 01:24:46 if I needed to measure the resistance, absolutely 01:24:50 yes, on the resistor 01:25:01 yeah electronic component companies need your hard earned dollars! 01:25:03 this was a 50mv full scale for a 2000amp supply 01:25:04 It may rip your arm off, but it won't blow the drivers. :) 01:25:18 a shunt then... 01:25:30 it was in series with the load 01:25:31 I don't normally refer to those as resistors (even tho they are) 01:25:45 yeah - hard to see 6 parallel copper plates as a resistor :) 01:25:47 http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=218074&e_categoryid=360&e_pcodeid=68401 01:25:58 and they are four wire connected... two honking bus connections for the load, two little screws for the wires to the 50mV meter 01:25:58 SWPadnos: Yeah, that's a shunt.. 01:26:15 bet they weren't really copper plates tho 01:26:20 these were 01:26:21 (unless it was a cheap shunt) 01:26:31 copper has a 0.4% per degree C tempco 01:26:44 good shunts use alloys that are more stable with temperature 01:27:04 jmkasunich I made a current shunt using some 18ga NiChrome I have 01:27:05 Well - I didn't turn it around to look - I only saw it in-circuit ;) 01:27:33 do not touch the busbars 01:27:42 ! 01:27:54 I suspect that it was meant to be operated at after the temperature stabilized 01:28:02 could be 01:28:10 yeah - these guys have water-cooled output bus bars 01:28:20 Do not touch the busbars with anybody, anything or anybodies anything.. 01:28:27 what kind of equipment 01:28:31 unless you *really* don't like them 01:28:50 I have a pic at work, gotta bring it home and post it 01:28:50 a bigass power supply - probably for electroplating of some sort 01:29:13 jmkasunich : So, overall... Do yo uthink this guys design is pretty good? 01:29:32 if you don't mind websites with audio - http://www.dynapower.com/ 01:29:37 power configuration arrangement for the 2000HP dyne in Wisconsin - a wall covered with busbars and 500MCM cable 01:30:19 Jymmm: hard to say... in power circuits, a lot depends on the layout and strays... that's what separates the men from the boys, IM(NS)HO 01:30:52 duh, there is a pic of the board 01:30:56 if it works well, and is fairly immune to failure from semi-unexpected sources, then it's a good design 01:31:05 otherwise it's crap 01:31:06 rayh has quit 01:31:06 nice wide traces 01:31:26 that looks like ground plane 01:31:59 I can't really see the space between the resistor pads and the plane area 01:32:10 perhaps... again, I'd need to see the layout close up to know exactly what he did 01:32:50 jmkasunich : Fair enough. I just like the idea IF I blew something up I can have a spare on hand or repair it. 01:32:51 I would probably have placed the resistors a little closer to the power chips, same with the main cap (although he might have other caps closer, SMT ones on the bottom of the board 01:33:15 jmkasunich there are caps on the bottom 01:33:34 He may have done the spacing for heat reasons 01:33:44 good point 01:33:45 (more copper as a heatsink) 01:33:54 he has a 0.1 per driver chip 01:34:04 0.1uF that is 01:34:28 hard to judge if that's enough, I'm not used to looking at such low power stuff 01:34:34 if only he had put the PCB and SCH files in the zip file - he used the same software I have :) 01:34:52 (this board doesn't have enough output current to use as a gate driver on our stuff!) 01:34:58 heh 01:35:20 gezr has quit 01:35:23 do you sometimes get "clunking" or "thunking" from large thyristors? 01:35:43 haven't used thyristers in a while 01:35:50 ah 01:35:53 if you get enough amps flowing, anything will make noise 01:36:25 but usually there are other things around making more noise, so it;s hard to tell 01:36:44 yeah - there was a not-quite-regular but not-quite-random thunking in the last large machine I was involved with there 01:36:55 that sounds strange 01:37:01 (the 4MW one I mentioned a few weeks ago) 01:37:06 I'd expect 60Hz, or some harmonic of that 01:37:11 nope 01:37:22 it was stuttery - like a large contactor 01:37:26 but that wasn't it 01:37:51 that's the kind of noise I would not step closer to in an attempt to hear it better ;-) 01:37:54 people theorized that it was the transformers or the very large caps 01:38:04 nope - not with a 13200 volt input 01:38:13 yeah, the caps beginning to break down! 01:38:35 they were huge caps - I think they were 1300V, 16000 uF 01:38:52 (the output caps, that is) 01:39:03 if I hear random or sporadic noises in one of our drives, I shut it down first and speculate about the cause later 01:39:16 those are some serious caps 01:39:26 series/parallel banks of electrolytics? 01:39:35 that was what we did, but some other guy came over and said "that thunking is normal for these 1000amp thyristors" 01:39:40 yes 01:40:09 we run 10,800uF at 1200V rated (1000V operating) in our latest drives 01:40:10 the supply was 2500V/2300A 01:40:20 20,000uF really, cause there are two banks in parallel 01:40:30 thse were a bit closer - 1200-1250 operating, 1300 rating 01:40:42 living dangerously they are 01:40:44 there were 8 in there, I believe 01:41:09 well - they have some very good physicists there - I'm sure they went through the calculations 01:41:43 physicists! they probably assumed ideal components.... you need engineers, not physicists 01:41:58 these guys never assume anything :) 01:42:00 1300V caps, aren't 01:42:35 it may have beed a 2300V, 1800A supply - I think they just had a few percent of headroom 01:42:40 ben 01:42:41 been 01:42:43 argh 01:42:54 That must be it, because I do remember the 4MW rating 01:43:08 the rest was just DSP A/D counts to me :) 01:43:21 that's dangerous 01:43:47 what? 01:43:54 I've met too many software folks for whom everything was just A/D counts 01:44:19 heh - I was quite aware of the rest of the machine 01:44:32 I'm paranoid when there's death potential in my software 01:44:59 (even injury potential triggers my paranoia) 01:45:07 don't get me wrong, I've worked with several who were very aware of what they were doing, but some.... 01:45:17 yeah - I know the type 01:45:27 in fact, one I know was actually a hardware guy :) 01:45:40 solder solder solder - look! 01:45:46 oops - smoke. Huh. 01:45:59 Are you hurt bad? 01:46:00 we had one guy who didn't understand that running the blowers while the field winding of the motor is energised isn't optional 01:46:33 (well I don't understand that either, but I'm not working on that project either ;) ) 01:46:38 when someone told him his motor was smoking, his first reaction wasn't to kill power, he walked out to see for himself 01:46:49 heh 01:47:05 I've just been trying to figure out why the smoke keeps coming out of my light controller 01:47:14 what kind of lights? 01:47:28 many LEDs for the effects in a play 01:47:42 I was testing SOT23 transistors with 1A current 01:48:00 many as in replacing overhead incandescents? or just some kind of in-scene gadget? 01:48:08 finally got it - I had misconfigured the output ports on the microcontroller - the base was being driven with a 50k pull-up 01:48:16 oops 01:48:18 in-scene, but in place of incandescent 01:48:42 yeah - an almost-on transistor with 24V across it will tend to dissipate more than 350 or 650 mW 01:49:05 5V/50K = 0.1mA, times beta of 150 or so is 15mA * 24V = 360mW 01:49:48 the funny thing was that it still worked - the first transistors were darlingtons, so the 0.1 mA base current was enough to get an amp through the transistors 01:50:07 the second ones I tried had a beta in the 400 range, so the 0.1 was 40 mA = oops 01:50:32 where was the 50K pullup? inside the uP? 01:50:43 yep - they were configured as inputs 01:50:58 and the pull-up was for eliminating external pull-up resistors 01:51:25 I would probably have a 1K from base to ground, and a 2K or so from base to output pin 01:51:37 that means you need about 0.6mA just to turn on 01:52:02 That would have helped a little (but then Iwould have wondered why the LEDs never lit :) ) 01:52:05 and with say 4.5V out, you'll draw about 2mA from the chip, delivering 1.4mA to the transistor 01:52:33 you would have wondered, but the transistors would be fine 01:52:37 With the new transistors, I actually need up to 25 mA into the base 01:52:49 (I try to design hardware to be "software proof") 01:52:57 well - they're really cheap, and too small to severely damage the board 01:53:10 your uP can deliver that at it's output pins? 01:53:13 (especially when we have two people watching them like hawks) 01:53:27 yep - source 20 or 25, sink 25 or 30 01:53:53 marginal then, if you need 25 01:54:18 did you have a series base resistor? 01:55:00 yes - 220 or 390 ohm - I haven't made the final decision yet 01:55:06 I may not need 25mA 01:55:33 I'd be tempted to go back to the darlingtons ;-) 01:56:11 well - they have a Vce(sat) of 1V (or so they say) 01:56:28 at 1A, that's a watt, which is over the 350 mw dissipation spec 01:56:36 ah, that's right... the Vce will kill ya 01:56:52 the others have a Vce(sat) of 0.2 V (less, as measured by me), and have a 650mw dissipation spec 01:57:05 plus they're 2A parts, used for 1A 01:57:19 (vs. 1.2A parts, used for 1A) 01:57:31 what is guaranteed minimum beta at 1A? 01:58:02 200 min - so I only need 5mA 01:58:06 400 typical 01:58:20 so where does 25mA come from? driving more than one? 01:58:24 the micor can source 80 mA (!) 01:58:28 micro 01:58:57 can, maybe... should, not really 01:59:12 what is Vout_hi when sourcing 80mA 01:59:13 80mA per pin, max of 500mA for the total device 01:59:17 3V 01:59:27 supply is 5? or 3.3? 01:59:41 5V supply - it can't hold it that high at 80 mA 01:59:58 so 2V drop at 80mA is 160mW (per pin) 02:00:17 yeah - as you said - not recommended (for long periods) 02:00:34 I need to keep it low anyway because there are 16 channels per chip 02:00:49 each channel drives only one 1A transistor? 02:00:54 (plus I hate to blow up expensive microcontrollers) 02:01:34 yep - there are 16 channels, each has one 1A (or so) transistor, each "string" of LEDs is 75 mA, so there can be roughly 15 strings of 5,6, or 11 LEDs per channel 02:01:49 (depends on the color) 02:02:04 and it's all PWM brightness controlled, in software 02:02:47 assuming 2V drop at 80mA then the Ron in the micro is about 25 ohms... Vbe is about 0.8 or so 02:03:28 I'm just looking at the curves in the datasheet - it's just under 80 mA at 3V Voh 02:03:32 (5V-0.8) = 4.2 / 6mA = 700 ohms for the series resistor 02:03:58 less the 25 ohms internal resistance, means 675 or so external, use 680 maybe 02:04:29 the extra 1mA (6 instead of 5) is for the 1K base-emitter resistor that keeps leakages or whatever from turning things partly on 02:05:02 thats a lot of LEDs... what are you lighting up? 02:05:11 the pins are driven both high and low - they aren't floating (since I've fixed the software) 02:05:22 several things - the play is "Cinderella" 02:05:35 we have a pumpkin that grows, and has several effects in it 02:05:35 anal designer... what about before the uP initializes, or as it shuts down 02:06:06 guaranteed to be hi-Z during reset 02:06:07 granted, for LEDs it doesn't matter.... I'm more used to things like IGBT that simply must not fire, regardless of the SW state 02:06:26 yes - for that type of application, there would be double the components on the board 02:07:04 long wires from LEDs to driver board? 02:07:18 has a brown-out detect, set for 2.7V - if the supply is that low, then there's no supply 02:07:39 nope - roughly 6 inches to a foot for the pumpkin, a few feet in the carriage (that the pumpkin turns into) 02:07:53 ok, the controller is inside the prop... 02:08:00 yes 02:08:28 the controller and drive transistors (and a switching power supply on the boars, for 5V) are inside the pumpkin with a couple of car batteries for power 02:08:34 board 02:08:47 car batteries? 02:08:51 messy 02:09:07 for LEDs? 02:09:16 we didn't want long cords, and the total of 16A is a pretty big load for batteries 02:09:22 several hundred LEDs by the sound of it 02:09:35 yes - we expect to have several hundres LEDs in there 02:09:47 LED draws what like 12ma about? 02:09:54 (I bought 3000 of them, so we have a few extras :) ) 02:09:55 shame you're flying to Fest... I have 4 old UPS batteries here, 12V, 17AH, sealed lead acid 02:10:09 the play starts the 28th ;) 02:10:20 I'm getting home at 11:00 opening night 02:10:23 (PM) 02:10:36 you acting, or just stage manager or something? 02:10:56 I'm just doing the electronics for the effects - my best friend is the effects coordinator 02:11:01 I see 02:11:06 (which is how I got roped into it) 02:11:26 http://www.lyrictheatrevt.org/ 02:11:32 you might want to look into sealed lead-acid... even new, they'd be under $100 for two, and safer/cleaner than car batteries 02:11:56 walmart car batteries like $30 a pop 02:12:04 Costco - $24.99 02:12:13 Lawn and garden, actually 02:12:25 sealed? 02:12:27 but still 12.56 volts, and 350A or so 02:12:38 deep cycle, or starting 02:12:40 well - they say sealed, but they slosh when you move them 02:12:53 "Cold Cranking Amps" - the only kind that matter here 02:13:10 why, you aren't gonna light up for very long? 02:13:12 They're small and light enough that I can pick them up with one hand 02:13:27 no but they won't have an alternator kicking in either 02:13:28 ok, not really car batteries, then, more like motorcycle batteries 02:13:31 nope - but I wanted 24V for the efficiency (more LEDs per current limiting resistor) 02:13:39 midway between 02:14:04 the entire effect is onscreen for less than 3 minutes, actually 02:14:09 onstage - sorry 02:14:18 (so used to filming commercials) 02:14:33 ah, then sounds like you have the simplest solution already 02:14:54 yeah - we have a rolling cart with the pumpkin, so we didn't want any power cords trailing 02:15:19 I hope you have a fuse or two 02:15:20 (of course, there is the air sock for inflating the pumpkin) 02:15:29 yeah - the transistors :) 02:16:03 that assumes the fault current passes thru the transistors 02:16:06 this is one awfully elaborate pumpkin we used to do it with a candle and a kitchen knife here 02:16:16 unfortunately, this is like putting a fuse in front of a chopper drive - there are perfectly sane modes of operation that would be up to 20A 02:16:23 chafed wires, etc, might have other plans 02:16:30 but that would fry any circuit board trace in a heartbeat 02:16:43 I was thinking just of something that would prevent wires or traces from going up in flames 02:16:54 true - there will be inline fuses for the power, and the terminals will be well-covered 02:16:55 heck that'd add to the effect 02:17:15 yeah - as the cart goes up in flames, and the first person to shout "Fire" gets arrested :) 02:17:22 lighted pumpkins are supposed to smoke a little 02:17:37 Daddy, Why is the Great Pumkin shooting fire out his backside? 02:17:46 he has gas! 02:17:49 "I don't know, Billy - RUN" 02:17:50 pumpkin flatulance 02:18:06 Peter, Peter, pumpkin eater 02:18:34 speaking of limit switches, I think I've reached my limit for tonight - still got to get several more effects working on this beast 02:18:47 time for bed here too 02:18:49 I'll see you guys later, if not at Fest 02:18:57 good luck on the punkin! 02:19:03 Thanks! 02:19:15 SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away 02:19:41 reminds me of the christmas light cult on the Internet 02:39:50 bedtime 02:39:51 jmkasunich has quit 03:15:52 * Phydbleep returns after ambushing an unwary wall with a liter of paint. 03:21:03 who won? 03:26:28 who won.... Phydbleep or the wall? 03:28:55 Me. 03:28:59 gezr has joined #emc 03:29:05 I have met the wall and it is white. 03:29:08 * Jymmm doubts it! =) 03:29:39 but so is the carpet and tthe dog too 03:29:50 Well.. Mostly white... I need to go get another gallon of paint tomorrow.. 03:30:26 Nope.. I didn't drip any, and I wouldn't let the dog drink any. 03:30:39 not drink.... WEAR =) 03:31:32 Never, I wanted rid of the ugly dark crap brown that it was painted with in there. 03:32:57 I had 1 liter of paint and a bunch of wall still to paint, I've got spray paint for the dog. :) 03:33:18 picnet has quit 03:43:55 Phydbleep go for camo canine 03:45:37 Naw, Bright pink with flourescent green spots. 03:45:52 that works.... dont forget the black light 03:45:57 There's a lot of drunks in the neighborhood. 03:47:34 Jymmm can you download this? http://www.lloydleung.com/spindle.dwg does it load? 03:48:18 seems the mime type is wrong. try using wget 03:48:35 well, I have it... I don't know why the mime type is wrong. that's my issue. 03:49:05 change the ext from .dwg to dwgs 03:50:03 wth you doin over there? it redirected me to the .dwg again 03:50:45 A-L-P-H-A is mod_rewrite being used? 03:51:20 I really don't think so... all I did was upload it as a binary file. 03:51:50 I'll just zip it, and see what happens then 03:52:21 Doesn't seem to think it's downloadable.... here' the http headers: 03:52:22 HTTP/1.1 200 OK 03:52:22 Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 05:06:46 GMT 03:52:22 Server: Apache 03:52:22 X-Powered-By: The blood, sweat and tears of the fine, fine TextDrive staff 03:52:22 Served-By: TextDrive 03:52:24 Vary: Accept-Encoding 03:52:26 Connection: close 03:52:28 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 03:52:58 check the apache logs 03:54:37 not my server... I'll see what I can do. http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Highspeed_Spindle_Design_drafts/spindle.rar 03:54:43 that works. 03:54:48 hmm... argh. 03:56:58 Jymmm, thanks for the assistance. 03:59:50 Ah... I know why.... server defaults to delivering text/html and it doens't know what DWG is 04:00:49 .dwg application/acad 04:00:50 .dwg image/vnd.dwg 04:00:50 .dwg image/x-dwg 04:00:54 oh, so I have to do an .htaccess hing. 04:01:10 'ight... I'll get the admins to add that stuff 04:01:19 http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:sDW433-C7OAJ:www.webmaster-toolkit.com/mime-types.shtml+mime+type+dwg&hl=en 04:02:07 I'd get the admins to add it in, htaccess for mime seems kludgy to me 04:55:16 picnet has joined #emc 05:04:08 alex_joni has joined #emc 05:17:22 morning guys 05:19:16 Hola 05:19:26 hey Jymmm 05:26:13 picnet has quit 05:33:14 Morning alex_joni :) 05:33:27 hey phydbleep 05:33:36 damn is that a bugger name... 05:33:39 does it mean smthg? 05:35:06 oh.. and what's Shifter? 05:37:28 It means Phydeaux@Bleep, If it's what I think you're talking about it was a mod for Tribes 2. 05:38:15 right.. that leaves the question where does Phydeaux come from? 05:39:41 It's usually not taken on a system... It's the Louisianna coon-ass spelling of Fido. :) 05:39:54 heh 05:39:59 lol 05:40:03 nice one 05:40:13 so you're from Louisianna? 05:40:22 It's also an 8 character login which was the max for years. 05:40:46 Nope, Just had the misfortune to attend school there. 05:41:52 right 05:42:08 Whew.. Either someone just ran over a skunk or the neighbors got something good. :) 05:42:36 that bad? 05:43:55 Real skunk, unhappy dog. 05:44:34 Which is funny because I'm in the middle of town. 05:46:30 G'Night Folks! 05:46:38 G'nite Jymmm. 05:46:41 :) 05:46:46 Jymmm has quit 05:48:29 alex_joni: What are you set up to cut? 05:50:25 not cutting yet 05:50:44 Ahh.. Blast! Foiled again.. 06:10:04 Is a 75mm disk too big for an encoder? 80mm square with housing, Good for 128 bit accuracy at 5mHz scan. 06:12:01 heh.. 06:12:07 depends on what you use it for 06:12:26 I've seen 8mm 20000 IPR encoders ;) 06:12:32 Absolute position sensing on a leadscrew. 06:13:19 IPR? 06:13:27 impulses per rev. 06:13:35 or PPR 06:13:40 Ahh... Film units? 06:13:49 I think glass 06:14:19 Micro-lithographic process. 06:14:29 probably 06:14:39 didn't get a chance to look inside 06:14:49 I have some 2500 PPR on my desk 06:14:53 broken that is ;) 06:14:59 disk shattered 06:15:06 These are printable on an inkjet @ 1200 dpi 06:15:16 coo 06:15:27 using Gray? or binary? 06:15:52 Binary with a 1024 bit linear ccd for a sensor. 06:15:57 nice 06:16:09 but Gray is less problematic ;) 06:16:15 needs some more deconding 06:16:29 but it's less troubled by noise 06:16:38 I could go higher with the count, but that would require a shrinky-dink disk or micro-lith. 06:18:37 les has quit 06:19:20 Well this is gooing to take decoding anyway, I'll look into Graycode. 06:20:42 gray code is set up to have always no more than one transition 06:21:00 in binary you may have 0111 -> 1000 (3 transitions) 06:21:23 in gray you have 101 -> 111 -> 110 -> 010 -> 011 .. etc 06:21:46 those are just plain examples ... not sure they are correct (I would need to look it up ) 06:22:03 * Phydbleep can find a Gray code generator. :) 06:22:11 surely you could 06:23:37 The imaging bit is a 20 pin dip with ~ 1" active area. I'd like to print the encoders on a 4800 dpi printer. 06:23:39 03alex_joni * 10emc2/emc2.gif: added a splash screen for emc2 06:24:30 I'll be sure to look when I get it to run. :) 06:24:39 heh 06:24:45 emc2 should be pretty easy to run 06:24:51 * Phydbleep did not knnow that emc2 would not work on a bdi system. 06:25:03 well.. it should.. and it will 06:25:23 till then: http://www.robcon.ro/emc/splash-emc2-v3.jpg 06:26:04 Cewl! :) 06:26:10 like it? 06:26:21 Cewl! == Cool! :) 06:28:25 * Phydbleep tries to find a price for an Atmel TH7813A. 06:28:46 what's that? 06:29:35 1024x1 linear ccd.. 06:29:59 Or 512x2.. Need to check. 06:30:31 It's at least 4x the res of the finished encoder. 06:32:00 03alex_joni * 10emc2/scripts/emc.run: enabled splash screen support 06:33:15 03alex_joni * 10emc2/tcl/bin/popimage: added popimage to the repository, it's a tcl script to pop an image (used for splash screen) 06:33:20 I want an encoder that will handle all of the leadscrew on this SB. 06:33:34 how many turns do you need? 06:33:52 600? I think. 06:33:59 I have some 48 bit x 24 bit abs-encoders 06:34:17 ? 06:34:37 48x24 or 48 & 24? 06:34:52 48 x 24 06:34:55 24 bit / turn 06:34:59 48 bit for turns 06:35:12 48 bit = a lot of turns 06:35:24 Ah, Yeah, That was why I was going 128 bit. 06:35:53 48 bit = 281474976710655 06:35:57 +/- 1 06:35:59 12 bits for turns and the rest for rotation 06:37:02 Realisticly I see getting ~ 64 bit with this setup. 06:39:33 anonimasu has joined #emc 06:40:11 Atmel TH7813A - 512x2 @ 25 mHz, They say 200 dpi usable. 06:40:54 anonimasu! :) 06:41:29 gmorning an0n 06:42:00 morning 06:42:59 still got your emc2 working? 06:43:04 or is that at home? 06:44:27 yes 06:44:30 I am at home now 06:44:39 but I havent got the config set up entirely' 06:45:01 could you try it? 06:45:14 I added a splash.. was wondering if it works for others 06:45:21 cvs co first ;) 06:45:26 hm, can you wait until after 4:o clock? 06:45:40 sure 06:45:47 great 06:45:52 I'll try it after that :) 06:46:10 I found somthing sweet 06:46:15 "torsmo" 06:49:22 http://torsmo.sourceforge.net/ 06:53:06 there's smthg even nicer 06:53:15 did you stumble upon lcdproc ? 06:53:54 http://lcdproc.omnipotent.net/ 06:56:06 picnet has joined #emc 06:57:53 seen that.. 06:58:01 but I cant carry around a lcd with my laptop 06:58:11 true... 06:58:13 :) 06:58:17 how about an USB-LCD? 06:58:18 :D 06:58:56 still not practical 06:59:27 I started hacking to get osx/beos icons in linux ;) 06:59:27 heh 06:59:36 yesterday 06:59:41 but I couldnt unpack them.. 06:59:43 I want to get me one of those laptop-usb-lights 06:59:46 since they are in osx package format.. 06:59:52 so I was going to boot beos via grub,. 07:00:11 but grub killed my lilo :) so I had to hack a whole lot to boot windows again 07:00:36 lol 07:01:14 hm, but I need a program that supports SVG rendering 07:01:18 to give myself icons 07:01:42 anonimasu: You're still infected with Windose? Ewww.... 8-P 07:01:47 yeah 07:01:49 it wouldnt go away.. 07:02:01 work needs windows.. 07:02:12 * Phydbleep has to keep 1 box with Windose networking. 07:02:57 Same here.. But the networking is about all that's left of it.. XP-Lite and LiteStep cured most of it. :) 07:03:27 hehe 07:03:27 And i've got Cygwin for an X layer. :) 07:04:29 Cygwin/X I presume 07:04:32 same here 07:04:37 running emc 07:04:45 through ssh -x 07:05:13 128 bit resolution should be plenty for anything under 10 feet of travel ?? 07:05:15 although I have an doze compiled emc 07:07:57 16 for turns 48 for rotation, Doubled for redundency, should be plenty for anything hobbyist related. 07:10:38 Would you pay $100 (US) a channel for an encoder/driver set? 120V 10A H-Bridge with 128 bit encoder and close loop controller? 07:10:55 128 count encoder you mean? 07:10:55 s/close/closed 07:11:24 No, Well.. 64 bit. 07:12:07 It's 128 bit total, but I'm doubling the encoder tracks. 07:12:23 how many lines does that equal to? 07:12:26 * anonimasu has no clue 07:12:44 Buttloads. :) 07:13:03 200 dpi 07:13:59 i may print the encoders and then have them xfered to filmstock. 07:15:05 how many lines per turn? 07:16:15 Depends on how big the disks are.. 07:16:56 over 1000 ? 07:17:12 with a 100mm disk yes. 07:17:47 I'd pay for the drive to be honest 07:17:49 :) 07:18:46 Cool.. Then my throwing out a set of plans to build it for ~$40 /channel would be really popular. :) 07:19:16 but I have drives already.. but if I were looking for drives 07:19:59 an0n: phydbleep is talking about an abs-encoder 07:20:07 64 bit 07:20:07 alex_joni: ah 07:20:09 which is plenty 07:20:24 I don't want to sell them.. I'll give the plans away to anyone who wants to make their own. 07:20:28 Phydbleep: serial or parallel connection? 07:20:39 120V 10A is pretty much 07:20:44 why not use an gecko? 07:20:49 does 80V 20A 07:21:06 with an proper encoder it works like magic ;) 07:21:15 120/10 is what I can get MOSFETs for cheap. 07:21:23 right 07:21:39 p-type or n-type? 07:21:46 or mix both? 07:21:57 Actually 200/15, mix. 07:22:06 ahh.. the easy setup ;) 07:22:13 did some myself 07:22:37 The $12 for a spare set of mosfets approach. :) 07:23:44 All chips WILL be socketed! 07:24:14 * Phydbleep is sick of trying to find an SMD reflow station for repairs. 07:25:00 heh 07:25:03 use a mill ;) 07:25:14 chip em out ;) 07:25:21 * Phydbleep uses a hammer 07:25:33 that might damage the board 07:25:43 And? 07:25:49 Hehehe.. :) 07:26:20 Give me an excuse to replace the unrepairable POS. 07:28:22 OK.. What I'm looking at is a system where you tell the unit the rate and the position and it goes there.. There's a master sync pulse from the spindle for threading. 07:29:18 will that work with "taps" or just threadmilling? 07:29:47 You tell it the leadscrew pitch and length the first time you use it and it stores that and the absolute position in an FRAM during power-down. 07:30:02 Should work with either. 07:30:07 hm, nice 07:30:47 Looks like < $50 per channel in parts. 07:31:19 I abut that's just hardware > emc isnt it.. 07:31:22 That's for non-production quanities. 07:34:08 That's just the built in functions.. emc would make it scream, It could offload some of the processing for steps/position keeping to the hardware. 07:34:39 hm ok 07:34:49 * Phydbleep is thinking for emc2/hal 07:34:53 yep 07:35:00 I need to take another look at hal someday soon 07:35:06 laters work.. 07:37:28 Have fun. :) 07:49:16 anonimasu: worst case 1600 PPR with a cd size encoder 07:50:07 That's printing it on a clear CD in a cd printer @ 200 DPI. :) 07:57:58 lol 07:58:01 nice ideea 08:04:18 16 bit Gray code gives 100,000+ steps per rev. 08:05:13 If you have room for the encoder wheels.. 08:06:43 picnet has quit 08:07:56 Or a 35mm film stripe under glass for a linear unit. Cheap and easy to fix.. Get out the glass cutter, unroll the spare encoder film. :) 08:09:10 It would take a 3 meter enlarger table for the contact print copies though. 08:22:02 Best case with a 4800 dpi cd/dvd label printer on a clear cd is ~38,000 PPR. 08:29:31 paul_c has joined #emc 08:42:57 Hehehe... Woohoo! I just found 400 dpi 128 pixel sensors for <$5 each. I think les is going to be very happy tomorrow. :) 08:54:43 paul_c has quit 08:55:18 bowika has joined #emc 08:56:30 hi! does anybody know how to set the axis limits to infinite in emc2? 08:56:53 Not I. 08:57:28 bowika: alex_joni or anonimasu might. 09:01:24 paul_c has joined #emc 09:03:00 greetings paul_c 09:03:37 Morning paul_c :) 09:04:20 and what of it ?? ;) 09:04:31 still funny? 09:05:07 Is 2000 degrees/second (~360RPM) fast enough for a leadscrew for a mill? 09:07:17 With 10/1 feeds it's 36 ipm, 20/1 =18 ipm 09:08:09 iab 09:08:47 paul_c: Morning, It's the earliest part of your day, It should coincide with the onset of conciousness and movement. :) 09:08:50 hm 18*25.4mm=457mm/min 09:09:29 bowika: yeah you have min_limit and max_limit for each axis 09:09:35 inside of the config 09:09:47 picnet has joined #emc 09:09:49 Phydbleep: that's pretty slow 09:10:39 That's with a 4096 step/rev resolution on ~ 50 mm disk. 09:10:58 ok 09:11:44 you are talking servos right? 09:11:56 For <$10 per encoder set. :) 09:12:22 APS absolute positioning system. 09:12:33 serovs? 09:12:34 Closed loop servo? 09:12:41 yeah 09:13:08 acemi has joined #emc 09:13:08 acemi has quit 09:14:13 46mm active diameter for the encoder wheel. 09:16:49 and you can poll it @ 100Hz. :) 09:18:50 ok 09:19:01 Which means 10 channels at an update rate of 10 Hz. 09:19:07 how do you expect to poll it? 09:19:12 with a PCI/ISA card? 09:19:22 emc2? 09:19:46 Parallel port as 8 serial lines. 09:20:15 Parallel port as 10 serial lines. 09:20:57 hm.. ok 09:21:18 well if you are talking servos aim for way higher speed... 09:21:39 as high as you can :) 09:21:58 Feed all of them back via I^2C to a pic or atmel as a data aggregator/controller and use emc2 for a head end. 09:23:11 anonimasu: And just exactly what kind of miracles do you expect me to pull out of my ass for <$10 a channel? 09:23:19 ROFLMAO!!! 09:23:33 bowika has quit 09:23:33 Phydbleep: actually I dont expect you to pull anything out of your ass.. 09:23:56 Phydbleep: I have servos, and I am going to buy a vital card within a couple of months just need to try converting the geckos to 0-10V amps 09:24:38 * Phydbleep teaches "The Procto-Theological School of Engineering"... 09:24:48 steppers & encoders would be way better I think 09:25:12 s/better/cheaper 09:25:13 :) 09:25:17 neat 09:26:49 Like I said this is ~360 rpm at the sensor so your leadscrew pitch will set the final speed. 09:27:15 :) 09:28:31 an0n: that's pretty easy 09:28:32 I'm sure that could be pushed to > 1200 rpm with a newer more expensive sensor array. 09:28:38 to convert the geckos for 0/10V 09:28:44 alex_joni: yep 09:28:52 I heard how yesterday 09:28:54 actually it's 0-5V 09:28:56 and I have a fried gecko laying around 09:29:03 for -10/10V 09:29:11 hm, really? 09:29:14 running 2.5V the gecko is stopped 09:29:19 running 5V full forward 09:29:24 Does it taste like chicken? 09:29:24 running 0V full reverse 09:29:28 can you run em from a viral card? 09:29:40 Sorry, coouldn't resist. :) 09:29:40 probably.. but an antivirus would be recommended 09:29:45 me neither 09:29:48 vital¤!"# 09:29:51 lol 09:29:55 *grins* 09:29:58 you need some convertion 09:30:10 the vital outputs 0/10V and direction I think? 09:30:34 or is it 0/10 : 0V full reverse, 10V full forward 09:30:35 ? 09:30:41 0-10v 5v stopepd I think.. 09:31:18 stopped 09:31:28 then you need an opamp 09:31:35 to make that 0/10 into 0/5 09:31:38 lets see.. 09:31:40 a simple divider 09:31:42 http://www.vitalsystem.com/motion/ 09:31:49 Analog Outputs: ±10V, 13-Bit Resolution, 8-Channels 09:32:28 it's +/- 10V 09:32:38 so you need to offset it a bit 09:32:50 make it 0/20V then divide it by 4 09:32:51 ;) 09:32:52 hm, I dont know how the gecko does it internally really.. 09:33:00 bleh, I might aswell buy new drives then 09:33:10 the pin Mariss told me about is the input to the PWM 09:33:35 0V full reverse, 2.5V stopped, 5V full forward 09:33:45 well it's all in the software I think.. 09:33:58 no software there 09:34:05 it's hardware analog 09:34:08 isnt the vital card just a dumb card.. 09:34:17 yeah 09:34:25 just outputs what emc tells it.. 09:34:28 but .. if you output under 0V you damage your drive 09:34:35 so you need to take care that it won't 09:35:00 on the other hand.. if you have a 20V range and use only 5V you won't have much precision 09:35:16 if you take the whole 20V range and scale it analogically .. it's a bit better 09:35:22 depends on how it works for you 09:35:30 hm, ebay it is. 09:35:40 I'll find other use for the geckos 09:36:04 but it'll have to wait if I need new drives.. 09:37:50 650$ for the card.. and $100 per drive :) 09:37:51 anonimasu: Wait a bit and see how this project goes, I'm designing this to run PMDC motors or steppers. 09:38:23 I dont think it'd be too hard to design the amps myself.. 09:38:54 < $50 in parts per channel for the whole enchilada. :) 09:39:20 I wont get away without a vital however I do.. 09:39:31 anonimasu: Why? 09:40:01 speed requirement 09:40:53 Use a PCI dual LPT and multiplex it.. It will be a solid 8 megabit even for a crap card. 09:41:26 Then if the card craps it's only $20 for a new one. 09:42:01 I dont like having my rapids set to 1500mm/min 09:42:51 when I have servos that should be able to move the machine at 5000mm/min.. 09:42:56 or more :) 09:43:11 That's for the $10 per channel encoders.. I'm still looking for a price on the faster imaging elements. 09:43:56 that's a nice bargain.. 09:44:24 That's a 128x1 linear sensor for <$5 in single lots. 09:44:55 The faster one updates @ 25mHz and is 1024x1. 09:50:28 looks like $12-$16 for the faster one. 09:51:29 ok 09:53:44 So I'm guessing >$30 per encoder or >$80-$100 per 120V 20A drive channel with encoders for 1200rpm (6000mm/min to you) 09:54:01 s/>$30/<$30 09:54:21 D'Oh.. I got both of those backwards.. 09:54:27 :) 09:54:47 <$30 per encoder or <$80-$100 per drive channel 09:55:34 the variance on the price is single or dual H-Bridges. 09:56:02 Same board, just more big mosfets. 09:59:06 anonimasu: When les comes in will you let him know I got it figured out? 09:59:16 yeah I can do that :) 10:01:41 Hobbyist $50/channel Pro $100/channel, They should be able to run any PMDC/brush or stepper you throw at them. 10:03:32 4096 ppr for the 2" cheap one and "I dunno yet" for the expensive one. 10:08:20 Hehehe... I'm going to have to make one of these encoders for the spindle on the lathe as a test... 0.087 degree accuracy.. 10:09:21 : 10:09:22 :) 10:12:18 Also, It will probably take a bigger disk to get more speed.. It should be <75mm for 10,000 degrees/second of rotation. 10:19:28 anonimasu: One other way to do it on the cheap is not count every step on a long fast move, just count the revs on the leadscew and switch back to absolute mode for the last 10-12 revs. 10:21:50 hm.. 10:21:53 What can you mill (besides foam for castingsor light wood) @ 5 meters/min? 10:21:54 might work.. 10:22:00 alu :) 10:22:07 www.datrondynamics.com 10:22:10 ^_^ 10:22:16 * Phydbleep is scared to look. 10:22:23 only in non ferrous though.. 10:22:40 But morbid curiosity has me.. 10:22:44 haha 10:22:45 check the video 10:23:46 les has joined #emc 10:23:50 Your company? 10:23:53 no 10:23:54 hey les 10:23:57 hi 10:24:03 LES! :) 10:24:04 just a machine with decent speed 10:24:45 I'll be back in 2 hours 10:26:38 I got it licked for < $50 per channel ... encoders are 4096 ppr @ 2000 degrees/second (~360rpm), Drivers are 120V 10A Dual H.. :) 10:27:49 les: Does that fit your speed requirement for the cnc mill drivers? 10:30:46 les: Or for $100/channel .. 10,000 deg/sec, 120V 20A. 10:31:36 10,000 deg/sec, 10,000+ ppr. 10:33:18 sorry had to hit the head 10:33:26 sounds very good 10:33:50 * Phydbleep was about to tell les to set down the cute girl and type. 10:34:13 heh 10:34:37 I take it that is 1024 x4? 10:34:46 The cheap 4096 ppr unit is 50mm diameter. 10:35:23 The 10k unit is 75mm 10:35:33 03alex_joni * 10emc2/Makefile: added a make tgz rule to produce a tarball of the sources 10:37:09 I am looking at CE certification if the amps are custom 10:37:24 it costs about $5000 per test 10:37:41 wich is fine as lone as one passes the first time! 10:38:08 if it fails it is another 5000 and so on 10:38:12 till it passes 10:38:38 les: bugger that 10:38:50 It would. (Should) Opto-isolate it to hell and back and maintain the dead zone in the middle between the hi/lo voltage sections. 10:39:20 Phydbleep: opto-isolate it no matter what 10:39:20 yeah 10:39:23 * Phydbleep has a nasty thought.. 10:39:29 ? 10:40:10 I wonder what the frequency reponse is for one of these opto-iosolated triac bicks. 10:40:19 bricks 10:40:29 low 10:41:16 3-32V input to control a 120V 25A outpuit.. I've fed htem audio before and had it work. 10:42:03 so I understand....a ten amp 120v h-bridge and an encoder for $50 material cost? 10:43:00 Plus the control/monitor microcontroller. 10:43:08 sure 10:43:20 this your circuit design? 10:43:33 You can poll the encoder at 100Hz. 10:44:17 It keeps running in between but the monitor micro is a slug. 10:45:27 encoder needs to turn at about 16*2 rps 10:45:50 75% mine, the rest is based on the reference design for the parts. 10:46:30 that counts...heck most of my circuit design is just tyin together ap notes heh 10:47:03 The encoders are printed on a postscrip printer @2450 dpi. :) 10:47:28 I printed on a 12000 dpi printer once ;) 10:47:33 hmm 10:47:48 Oohh... Nice encoders. :) 10:48:17 Well as one that designs commercial encoders...I know that the guts can be very cheap 10:48:34 99% of the system you could do in house and buy servo amps from somewhere. :) 10:49:10 Phydbleep: not encoders, it was a layout for some schematic 10:49:30 alex_joni: ?? 10:49:43 I printed on a 12000 dpi printer once ;) 10:49:45 One trick I use is just a prismatic pattern molded in clear SAN 10:49:48 Oohh... Nice encoders. :) 10:50:09 it costs just about nothing 10:50:13 OH, I was just saying it would print some nice ones. :) 10:50:19 ahh.. ok 10:50:58 anyways.. my thoughts are that it's bulloks to try to make a good encoder at home 10:51:11 usually yes 10:51:13 if you do it like les (for production) .. maybe 10:51:28 but just home-built, laser printed ... 10:51:34 depends on what you need it for 10:51:45 les: Actually I think that a 48V 10A unit with encoders could be done for ~$30/channel. 10:52:06 material cost? 10:52:11 for parts right? 10:52:13 Wholesale. 10:52:23 wholesale? 10:52:30 that means you do it for 10$ 10:52:36 * Phydbleep has connections in Hong Kong. :) 10:52:40 heh 10:53:12 but still .. 10:53:12 There's a whole lot of little factories over there hurting for something to make. 10:53:24 10$ parts, 10$ labour, 10$ profit 10:53:36 well I looked at stuff like the 6 amp or so ic that has the high side mosfets on the chip 10:53:38 parts must include PCB's, etc 10:53:45 low side is discrete 10:53:56 les: how much current? 10:53:58 That's about it. for sitting on your butt and brainstorming for a while. :) 10:54:01 the ic is $3 or something in hundreds 10:55:04 les: The H-bridges are discrete parts. easy to replace. 10:55:14 well rolling servo amps is something that needs to be looked at 10:56:10 I do have some experience in tooling up tronics 10:56:16 Hehehe.. I should dig out the modular design for the 200V 100A motor controller and add 2 mosfets. 10:56:39 the encoder circuit boards I did are at 100k/yr 10:56:51 we build them in chicago 10:57:10 the pick and place robots are blasting away 10:57:18 sounds like a machine gun 10:57:22 The control pack is the size of a pack of cigs.. the heat sink is the size of a phone book. 10:57:47 phone book...hehe 10:58:29 I get away with about 3x5x1 heat sinks on 20 amp copleys 10:58:34 fan cooled 10:58:52 they ususally never even get warm 10:59:19 they only dissipate a few watts 10:59:22 Seriously, It's a 200V 100A polyphase converter.. DC in 3 phase out... This uses passive cooling.. I hate noisy fans. 11:00:00 wow 11:00:52 240 * 1.414 in 240 out is good... 11:01:15 320V in 11:01:24 240V out. 11:01:49 Traction drive for a diesel-electric. 11:02:54 I see 11:03:46 well I have to work on my audio card a bit here....skype is not seeing the line inputs for some reason 11:04:05 and I need that to have some meetings 11:04:36 actually I need a better audio card 11:04:55 I need to go fall over and get some sleep. I have to be up in 6 hours. 11:05:06 do that 11:05:20 tell me more about the amps after 11:05:34 les: I'll get with you later and show you the design notes I'm working from. 11:05:41 ok cool 11:05:51 Cool, That works.. 11:06:14 * Phydbleep falls over and goes "Thud" 11:06:18 Thud 11:06:25 G'nite. :) 11:10:41 rayh has joined #emc 11:14:39 Hi Ray 11:14:40 03rumley * 10documents/scratch.txt: Working bugs out of my understanding of TortoiseCVS. Moving scratch.txt back to 'newline' line endings, after an inadvertant modification to CR-LF by yours truly. 11:19:45 Hey Paul. 11:22:43 hey ray 11:23:00 rayh: was reading a bit from the handbook today 11:23:12 Hi Alex. 11:23:33 it's a bit outdated ;) (to put it nicely) 11:23:57 Um... Yes. 11:26:50 is it still usefull? or will we replace it with the wiki? 11:27:43 I can't imagine someone wanting to use the wiki for all that range of info. 11:28:04 Although the wiki is certainly a bit more editable. 11:28:09 heh .. yeah 11:28:20 where's all the data from the handbook? 11:28:24 ok the problem with skype was that it automatically selects mic in...I am using line in 11:28:24 latex on CVS? 11:28:39 any one have skype? 11:28:50 * alex_joni used skype a bit 11:29:12 I need to call someone for a sound check 11:29:19 humm.. ok 11:29:26 let me put my headphones on 11:29:29 k 11:29:54 contact name? 11:30:04 alex_joni 11:30:11 k 11:35:53 good we had an ok talk 11:36:01 seems to be working ok 11:37:19 I have this set up with a dirctional mic so no headset is needed 11:37:25 nice 11:37:39 I had to use the headset because it's a full office around here 11:37:49 it's a bit too noisy ;) 11:38:09 but other than that it usually works ok for me too (laptop speakers & mic) 11:38:13 hopefully you did not hear an echo of his voice from the speakers 11:38:28 yes it sounded like lots of people were around 11:39:10 heh.. yeah 11:39:31 alex_joni: The master doc's for all handbooks are in sf 11:39:44 documents/lyx 11:39:56 I need a bit more gain here...have a scope hooked up to the card 11:40:34 heh.. I think that's a bit overkill for a microphone :D 11:40:46 I hope my accent wasn't too bad ;) 11:41:43 anyways.. going to my second job now 11:43:21 sounded fine 11:44:42 nice talking to you ;) 11:45:05 same here 11:45:25 I'll be around later this evening 11:45:35 gotta install some 220V plugs now 11:45:38 anonimasu has quit 11:46:08 our company is getting a new office building, I need to rewire everything 11:46:13 I needed to set this up because I am the advisor for univ. of illinois mech eng senior design projct 11:46:25 enjoy the wiring! 11:46:28 thx 11:46:44 bye 11:46:49 alex_joni has left #emc 11:58:51 toms has joined #emc 11:58:59 Hi tom. 12:01:58 hmm was checking the snail mail 12:02:12 got a letter from european patent office 12:02:21 another one issued! 12:02:29 toms: The command is ./generic.run -ini smithy.ini 12:15:01 picnet has quit 12:16:02 toms has quit 12:53:53 heh, I just asked out my 21 year old neightbour. :D 12:54:18 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/emcstepper.c: Changed the stepping types so that they match the current docs. 12:57:41 girl next door eh? 12:58:19 You should ask her IN...not out 12:59:17 les... will work on that. 12:59:30 she's a pretty girl. pretty down to earth. 13:02:41 well great 13:03:16 A-L-P-H-A: Gotta watch those earthy kinds. 13:03:31 Married to one 39 years now. 13:03:34 I'm old now but did the neighbor girl thing a bit. 13:03:39 Married one. 13:03:52 married the neighbour? 13:03:57 yes 13:04:23 so watch out heh 13:04:25 hmm... 13:04:33 marriage is far from my mind. 13:04:41 I hear you 13:05:06 I'm 25, single... and I like it this way... for the time being. 13:05:32 yup 13:06:32 I also married a girl I met on msn 13:06:43 DON"T DO THAT 13:06:54 heh 13:07:16 internet dating... I met some girl like that too... but I never married her... though she was pregnant with my kid... [terminated]. 13:07:29 heh 13:07:51 <-- not a father, as of yet. 13:08:01 I am. 13:08:01 but I do know my fish swim. So that's good to know. 13:08:13 yeah 13:08:55 termination wasn't my choice, but I would have been leaning towards that... as the ex was still in university. 13:09:22 I am looking in the USPTO to see how much my name is used in vain 13:09:49 peculiar because I got a letter from the european patent office today 13:10:00 but the us patent has not issued 13:10:08 or I can't find it 13:10:22 or I threw away the wrong mail 13:10:36 patent letters look like junk mail 13:10:41 les, that could not be good. :) 13:10:55 anonimasu has joined #emc 13:10:59 hello 13:11:06 hey anonimasu. 13:11:19 how's it going?= 13:11:22 good. 13:11:28 I guess the european on has issued 13:11:32 I think 13:11:39 it's the encoder. 13:11:41 good = great, 13:12:03 les... et un encoder pour? 13:12:27 ?? ha 13:12:45 un encoder pour encoding 13:12:50 SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos 13:13:12 what's the encoder for? 13:13:14 no...it has not issued...only applied 13:13:23 patent pending? 13:13:28 it is a throttle position sensor 13:13:34 "Your application has issued to the reviewer" 13:13:51 ah 13:13:52 This is a designation of inventor document 13:13:52 nice 13:13:53 s/reviewer/examiner/ 13:13:56 isn't there already such things? like in my car? 13:14:07 it's probably better and cheaper.. 13:14:08 sure 13:14:16 so, prior art? 13:14:18 this one is Different (tm) :) 13:14:22 but not with guts that cost $2.50 13:14:24 ^_^ 13:14:27 they're just a potentiometer now 13:14:36 yeah 13:14:37 les: I meant the new ones 13:14:41 mine is optical 13:14:54 contact free.. 13:15:00 the current ones tend to wear out around the idle position 13:15:03 yes contact free 13:15:11 picnet has joined #emc 13:15:22 the black blob with the coppery PC board in one of the photos you see during BDI installation :) 13:15:34 heh 13:15:37 yup that is it! 13:15:41 in sweden you couldnt apply for a patent for somthing like that 13:15:45 since you've shown it already 13:16:00 stupid rules 13:16:09 as long as the patent is applied for before it's shown, you're OK 13:16:12 Jymmm has joined #emc 13:16:23 let me check designated states on this paper... 13:16:28 yeah sweden 13:16:50 well lets just say that the image is something else 13:16:51 This sounds more like the system used in the original "wah-wah" pedal 13:17:02 "The image is something else" 13:17:06 (how was that?) 13:17:07 haha 13:17:12 CNCGuitar? 13:17:12 haha 13:17:16 sweden is stupid ;) 13:17:21 somtimes 13:17:25 and somtimes great 13:17:31 yeah my volume pedal is optical I think 13:17:35 though the awh-wah pedal used a single optical stripe of varying intensity, rather than encoder-type technology 13:17:40 wah-wah 13:17:43 I like contactless things 13:17:46 unbreakable.. 13:18:10 anonimasu contactless CNC ? 13:18:16 s/unbreakable/doesn't wear out in normal use/ 13:18:22 yeah 13:18:41 plasma, waterjet, and edm are all "contactless" CNC 13:18:55 * anonimasu sighs 13:19:01 I didnt talk about cnc :) 13:20:31 I can say cnc is very handy for making guitars 13:20:38 especially inlay 13:20:51 great for mother of pearl 13:20:53 :) 13:21:18 and rough carving tops 13:21:36 final shaping is scrape and tap and listen 13:22:07 Dan Falck did inlays with EMC years ago. 13:22:53 SWPadnos : quit mucking up my poor attempt at humor will ya! =) 13:23:08 sorry 13:23:20 * anonimasu noda 13:23:21 nods 13:24:04 I meant to ask you guys.... Is there a vertical mill with the precision of a sherline, but slightly larger out there? 13:25:10 Bridgeport 13:25:29 I thought some of pitching a bridge mill to Sherline. 13:25:35 oh - *slightly* larger :) 13:25:43 andyg has joined #emc 13:25:53 hello 13:25:58 Which reminds me - the Shoptask mills are pretty good in that size range 13:26:09 You could prototype a bridge sherline 13:26:30 With three of their long sliders and a Z. 13:26:57 Or could gantry the same setup. 13:27:12 hm, I dont think a gantry would be bad at all.. 13:27:17 You'd get about 10x10x8 13:28:42 doesn't seem like a noticable differnce 13:29:21 Perhaps I will have a machine to offer 13:29:59 ugly yellow website, but - http://www.shoptask.com/ 13:30:39 they have "scratch-and-dent" specials for $2195 instead of $2995 13:31:17 They're also in Vegas - you could drive out and pick up the machine yourself (bring a friend - they're 700 pounds) 13:31:36 Gotta give www.smithy.com equal time. 13:31:48 I was thinking instead of a 35 lb machine, more like a 150 lb one, not a 900 lb monster 13:32:02 do you want to mill metals? 13:32:18 My prelim specs are 20x20x4... .001 repeatbility....1000 ipm rapids...under $10k 13:32:26 SWPadnos can't I mill with sherline? 13:32:26 but not a hobby machine 13:32:32 SWPadnos can't I mill metals with sherline? 13:32:39 sure 13:32:47 But your are not talking sherline precision unless you hit the high end 13:33:12 you can, but if you increase the size of the work, you also have to increase the size of the machine - both for physical fit reasons, and added stiffness to keep the same precision 13:33:40 SWPadnos from 35 lb (sherline) to 150 lb isn't an increase in size? 13:33:44 so the mass of the machine goes up as the square or cube of the work envelope 13:33:47 I wonder what class headstock bearings the sherline uses 13:34:43 one old trick is to use abec1 deep groove as angulars... 13:34:51 They have a 12k spindle. 13:35:07 then machine spindle tapers etc in place 13:35:23 I believe the bearings are the same as the standard 13:35:26 hey - the Smithy stuff looks pretty cool 13:35:30 so it is VERY accurate as long as you don't change out the bearings 13:36:09 micron level runout 13:36:44 I even do that on larger machines 13:37:13 I took a very light grind on the 5c collet holder on the boxford in place 13:37:14 Smithy's 1240 is EMC. 13:37:51 dial indicator does not move when checking concentricity 13:38:09 tonyp has joined #emc 13:38:53 Hi Tony. How's the router? 13:39:02 1240? let me hunt that up 13:39:20 there's a 1340 there, but I didn't see a 1240 13:39:31 need a few questions answered 13:39:40 following errors 13:39:57 Go ahead 13:40:13 On your setup, they are caused by the computer not being able to keep up.\ 13:40:29 With the pulse rate out. 13:40:58 paul_c sent me an ini file that he tested on a slower computer. It works only in one direction. I get about half speed in the other direction 13:41:18 this is for all three axis 13:41:55 Well I guess we need to bitch at paul_c 13:42:20 * paul_c books a plane out of the country. 13:42:27 You go ahead, Hes been helpful to me 13:42:46 what are MAX_OUTPUT ans MIN_OUTPUT? (not sure if these are used with freqmod, but figured I'd ask anyway) 13:42:51 s/ans/and/ 13:43:18 They are used by freqmod 13:43:41 They are used to clamp the max velocity 13:43:43 -30 30 13:45:07 OK 13:45:25 les, you still there? 13:45:36 From http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7500678740 to http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Highspeed_Spindle_Design_drafts/spindle.rar [apache didn't recognize the mime type last time] 13:45:45 tonyp: Have you altered anything in that ini file ? 13:45:47 SWPadnos, the spindle design. 13:46:04 hi, i was here yesterday morning asking about cnc lists, i visited CCDM, thanks (they seem to be down atm) 13:46:37 The only thing I touched was the max acceleration. I slowed it down some 13:46:49 CCDM? what about CCED or CCE groups on yahoo? also www.cnczone.com 13:47:27 I'm sorry, CCED 13:47:47 woops default acceleration. 13:47:51 Andy Wander? 13:48:08 that's not me 13:48:42 I see Wille Padnos' posts. 13:49:22 there does not seem to be the same community support for cnc, as compared to say the linuxes 13:49:36 andyg, smaller niche. 13:49:43 same support, just smaller niche. 13:49:45 :) 13:49:48 tonyp: Hrmm.. Accel shouldn't affect it.. 13:49:53 plenty of support in here.. the developers are in here. 13:50:08 like the fine gentleman, paul_c. 13:50:20 umfortunatly I am not using emc...yet :) 13:50:40 general CNC discussion is welcome in here... I ask all the time. :) 13:50:41 SWPadnos_ has joined #emc 13:51:16 I need a coin... hair cut, or machine the spindle? 13:51:52 thanks A-L-P-H-A 13:51:58 I get good speed in one of the directions on all three axis but only half of it in the other direction 13:53:10 tonyp? that's weird. full speed in one direction of each axis? and half speed in the reverse direction? 13:53:35 that is new to me. are you sure your windings wired correctly? [that's the only think I can think of] 13:55:37 These are new stepper motors 13:56:25 SWPadnos has quit 13:56:36 SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos 13:56:55 swap the phases on one motor, and see if the slow direction changes 13:57:16 (once the real experts are done with you :) ) 13:57:42 I'll try that as a last option 13:57:59 it may tell me alot 14:00:57 tonyp: You running live or 4.xx 14:01:31 live 14:01:39 rc46 14:02:45 What values do you have in the ini for MIN_OUTPUT = -50 14:02:45 MAX_OUTPUT = 50 14:03:04 That didn't work so well. 14:03:21 right now the max and min are -30 and 30 14:04:13 min -30 max 30 14:04:32 yes 14:05:38 Input and output scale are the same value on each axis 14:05:53 yes 14:07:14 Is display distance traveled the same both directions? 14:07:29 and does it match actual distance. 14:08:33 yes I think so. I didn't look at the display when setting the input output scale but 1" =1" exactly 14:08:42 in both directions 14:09:39 as a matter of fact on the z axis the display is right cause I remember looking at it 14:10:38 rayh, by the way deadband is 1 \ input scale isn't it 14:11:31 Yes or smaller to .55/scale. 14:11:58 ok just making sure 14:13:55 Not a clue what's going on. 14:14:14 your'e not a lot of help 14:14:51 That seems to be my best act of late! 14:15:00 All three axes behave the same. 14:15:39 yeah, its kind of wierd. I'll try a few thing out and get back to you. 14:16:09 I did cut my first program yesterday and it worked real good except only at 30 ipm 14:16:40 hoping to get 80 ipm feeds when Im finished getting it right 14:16:55 Above 30 you got following errors? 14:17:18 Didn't try that yet, had to go to work 14:17:31 just ran some type to see how it cut 14:17:41 looked real good though 14:20:00 I'm heading to the garage. get back later. signing off. 14:20:09 tonyp has quit 14:22:11 Fantastic. Glad that you got that far. 14:29:15 I can't get in the mood to machine. strange. 14:33:45 then go for the haircut 15:13:59 I took a shower, and ordered a pizza instead. :D 15:21:14 good thing - the smell was getting to me :) 15:36:28 anonimasu has quit 15:42:29 pemmet has joined #emc 15:42:48 pemmet has quit 15:45:00 * andyg is back from cnczone 15:46:24 ok, I think I'm getting a better handle on this: "DIY" seems to have more active community then "commercial" 15:47:19 I imagine commercial interests would be more close-mouthed about what they're doing 15:47:30 whereas DIY is more of a community of enthusiasts 15:49:02 that "closed mouth" attitude is strange to me, of course, that is because I think I'm the best g-code programmer I ever met 15:49:47 heh - if you're a company that wants to sell a product, it's probably best to keep your problems to yourself, and to not give the competition the solutions you figure out 15:50:11 ah, yes, I was thinking more of the end users 15:51:04 I just believe obscurity in the tech sector is counter productive 15:52:00 andyg, it is... but what's good for the end user, may not be good for business. 15:52:00 I should be able to beat the competition, wit hinovation, if they want to follow a few years behind fine :) 15:52:06 I am commercial but try to help hobbyists 15:52:29 les, so you're a pro, eh? how much for a quickie? 15:52:41 picnet has quit 15:52:42 Some hobbyists are more knowledgable than the commercial guys anyway! 15:52:57 ahem depends on what kind of quickie 15:52:59 heh 15:53:11 I'm commercial, but I learned most of my trade by teaching it to someone else 15:53:25 les: that is so true 15:53:30 well said 15:53:31 it's about passion 15:53:37 les, are you going to code fest? 15:53:59 No I am not a developer... 15:54:05 I just do math 15:54:10 I see. 15:54:23 however some will come down here after codefest 15:54:27 I do both... B.Sc mathematical Sciences. 15:54:39 les, where are you again? 15:54:44 I wish the segmot papers were smaller - I'd love to print them out and read on the plane 15:54:59 SWPadnos, PDA? laptop? 15:55:00 ne georgia right at the nc border 15:55:12 les, oh. I'm sorry. ;) 15:55:13 laptop, but only when it's allowed ... 15:55:19 michigan here 15:55:39 well we hope to beat up segmentqueue and test it on the fast machine 15:56:01 heh - I can also test here with my scope 15:56:06 It will be some coding 15:56:17 (for *really* high speeds) 15:56:50 nothing like changing a couple lines, recompiling, and moving 500 kg of iron fast 15:57:10 better in the early stages to *not* move 500kg really fast ;) 15:57:23 (electrons have so much less momentum) 15:57:46 I think we can get somewhere...I understand the paper...Paul understands the code 15:57:59 that should be a good pairing 15:58:05 we'll also see what happens at fest 15:58:08 I do program in c some...but not with linux and gnu much 15:58:32 luckily there isn't a lot of OS-specific stuff in the calculation functions 15:58:38 right 15:58:43 (at lest, there shouldn't be) 15:58:55 there isn't 15:58:59 oh man... I feel like I need an afternoon nap 15:59:07 zero caffine in my system today 15:59:35 I was just out "relaxing" by making a wood drill caddy that mounts on the wall 15:59:37 Caffeine 15:59:44 do you know if the queue code uses matrix math, or if the calcs are hard-coded for the specific matrices used? 15:59:45 sick of those folding cases 15:59:55 a lot of holes to drill! 16:00:12 but at least you have all the drills to do it ;) 16:00:20 I gotta go to work, thank, back later 16:00:23 les... I kinda like the folding cases... it's well organized. 16:00:26 SWP: it is hard coded cramer's rule stuff 16:00:38 good for speed that way 16:00:43 yes 16:00:53 no numerical methods are used 16:00:58 les, did you ever look at the drawing I had? 16:01:07 prob 16:01:10 From http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7500678740 to http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Highspeed_Spindle_Design_drafts/spindle.rar 16:01:11 which one? 16:01:20 oh yes I did 16:01:28 any problems you forsee? 16:01:35 yes 16:01:39 :( 16:01:42 such as? 16:01:59 .5 id bearing will not fit properly on a .5 od shaft 16:02:18 les, I aready mod the spindle to allow the bearings to fit. 16:02:33 bearing tables show about .5003 16:02:33 I out the spindle on the lathe, and use some 360 sand paper... and just took off a smidge. 16:02:45 hmm 16:02:46 out=put 16:02:53 the spindle was > 0.500" 16:02:57 made it smaller? 16:03:23 it should be smaller everywhere except right where the bearing seats 16:03:27 now it's 0.500" when it's COLD. when the heat the spindle with my hand, it's gets too warm to put the bearings on. 16:03:44 hmm 16:03:47 ok 16:04:02 any other issues? 16:04:25 I think I would bring it down to 12 mm and use a standard metric. 16:04:37 Yeah one question.... 16:04:38 can't there's a through hole. 16:04:49 well, I could. 16:04:58 what holds the bearing axially? 16:05:03 but it's more work. I already bought the bearings for $1.32CDN + taxes each. 16:05:31 axially? cold rolled steel bar, that I'm about to bore out? 16:05:42 a collar? 16:05:45 1.75" dia cold rolled steel? 16:05:46 oh. 16:05:48 yeah... 16:05:59 set screw? 16:06:17 I'm about to thread the extension, so that each end houses a nut. And in between use a spacer that I'll have to make as well. 16:06:29 SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away 16:06:39 no, no set screw. A nut, probably out of steel as well, or 6061 16:06:54 I would shrink fit those puppies on 16:07:05 I'll red lock tight the two to together. 16:07:15 oh the final stop must be the nose of the extension 16:07:45 but normally you have two bearings at the nose db configured 16:07:55 db? 16:07:56 and one floating at the pully end 16:07:59 yes. 16:08:16 db is back to back angular mounting 16:08:39 well, they're just precision radial bearings... that I'll double up. 16:09:01 can also do it with deep groove bearings....run as angulars 16:09:27 deep groove radials will have a good bit of axial clearance by themselves 16:09:31 these are R8 2RS bearings. sec. 16:09:45 ok 16:09:51 what rpm? 16:11:22 21,000 rpm rated. I'll be going at 12Krpm 16:11:39 so I should be good. 16:11:59 yeah 16:12:33 I might make a spindle like that with a 1" diam er-25 extension 16:12:59 I was actually thinking of buying another collet extension er-16... 16:13:14 I would use 7205 angulars at the nose and 6205 deep groove at the pulley 16:13:21 25 mm bore 16:13:36 so just under 0.4 mm to take off 16:13:45 bearings aren't the issue, bearings are cheap... i a slew of distributors for bearings near me. 16:13:56 hmm 16:14:08 class 7 angulars aren't cheap 16:14:14 no. they aren't. 16:14:20 checking in msc... 16:14:45 abec 7, around 20mm... it's like ~$15CDN each. 16:14:54 nothing more than $20CDN each. 16:15:08 I bought a couple of low profile, high precision bearings for my rotary table... two cost me $35CDN. 16:15:24 I am getting $459/pair for abec7 16:15:35 ABEC7? 16:15:37 wtf? 16:15:41 yeah 16:15:45 what size? 16:15:47 pretty bad price 16:16:01 3/8" bore... I could get 8 for like maybe $100CDN MAX. 16:16:10 {rollar blade bearings} 16:16:14 ABEC 7. 16:16:47 let me make a call... what grade, and size? 16:16:51 les...? 16:17:03 20mm? ABEC 7? 16:17:07 OD? 16:17:13 oh here are some "import abec 7 7205 for $202.20/pair 16:17:15 RPM rating? 16:17:26 52 mm od 16:17:35 and height requirements? 16:17:58 I would have to hunt it up ...rpm is in the high teens 16:18:02 20ID 52OD ABEC7? rpm rating? 16:18:10 k... let me call and ask. cause I'm curious now. 16:18:26 25 id 16:18:34 k 16:18:38 I have the books...I can find it in a sec 16:21:24 12K rpm, radial bearing... $9CDN [asking bout high speed thrust bearings] 16:22:01 41800 rpm grease for ceramic ball... 16:22:20 and... 16:23:19 7205, $94CDN/EACH. 16:23:45 sucka. :D I can get them cheaper... [not that I need them] 16:24:06 only 10,000 rpm grease with steel ball abec-1 16:24:41 $94 for abec-7 universal flush ground light preload? 16:25:40 dunno... I didn't get into that much detail... but I told him that this would be for a high speed spindle. 16:25:47 and proceeded to give me that info. 16:26:33 well that is somewhat similar to the $180/pair I see here 16:26:44 what is the exchange rate right now? 16:27:21 1.25CDN = 1USD 16:27:34 .8USD = 1CDN 16:27:35 ok 16:27:43 better than it used to be I guess 16:27:52 for you 16:27:57 for Canadians yes, not yanks. 16:28:14 I remember, when I was selling to the states... 1.64CD = 1USD. that was great. 16:28:24 yeah 16:28:26 sell $2CDN worth of materials for like $30USD. :) 16:28:39 + 15 minutes of machining time. 16:29:00 well... if I did it in bulk it'd be like 8-10 minutes a piece. 16:29:11 good deal 16:30:19 market got flooded. 16:30:23 so I bowed out. 16:30:30 they now sel them for like $10 a pop. 16:31:22 Well I will still need a low speed drilling spindle even though i am getting the perske 16:32:35 it is lightly built....7005 or 7105 I think 16:32:46 les, if you bought them yourself, you wouldn't need to pay taxes, as you're a yank. 16:32:50 just shipping. 16:33:01 24,000 rpm 7.5 kW 16:33:03 I'd need to pay 15% taxes. 16:33:20 what is the outfit? 16:33:24 BDI Canada. 16:33:35 googling 16:33:41 27 Casebridge Court, Unit 4 16:33:41 Scarborough, Ontario 16:33:41 Canada M1B 4Y4 16:33:45 PHONE: (416) 281-5188 16:33:45 FAX: (416) 281-3762 16:34:11 disclaimer: I am not a employee or vendor of or for BDI Canada. 16:34:25 www.bdi-canada.com 16:34:30 got the web site 16:34:33 looking 16:34:47 oh there's a BDI USA 16:34:53 maybe they'd be better for you 16:36:00 I got great prices in chicago when I worked there 16:36:13 just down the street 16:36:21 everything wwas 16:36:26 so, call them, I'm sure they'd deliver. UPS/FEDEX/USPS 16:36:32 the rub and tug 16:36:38 underground casino 16:36:44 speak easies 16:36:58 HIWIN warehouse was a couple miles away 16:37:26 if I lived in a place that well connect, I'd be hard pressed to leave there. 16:37:31 connected 16:37:44 Toronto is nice... cheap places all over the place, but it's a big city. 16:37:48 They have a huge room full of linear rail cutoffs etc 16:37:53 yeah 16:37:59 well out in the woods here 16:38:11 I depend on mail order for everything 16:38:15 that's cuase you're unibomber ][ 16:38:17 msc mostly 16:38:25 I like msc. they price compete. :D 16:38:41 mcmaster won't... and they're from New Jersey... bah. 16:38:42 unabomber...everyone says that! 16:38:49 haha 16:39:04 I do math...I live in the woods... 16:39:29 I just hate the bronx and NJ accents. they think they're all that, yet they sound so annoying. 16:39:44 less than mainstream politics... 16:39:59 I have no accent...but others here sure do 16:40:08 I often cannot understand them 16:40:16 I have a Canadian, Toronto accent. 16:40:21 eh? 16:40:34 I don't actually say "eh" but I type it. :) 16:40:57 "eh" sounds a lot smarter than "huh" 16:41:13 ha 16:41:34 My part time engineer here is an aussie 16:41:43 he has an accent 16:42:06 and all those phrases they use 16:42:15 like "spit the dummy" 16:42:18 guys with accents annoy me. girls with accents, well depends from where... can push a girl from a 7 to an 8. 16:42:33 sure 16:42:44 les, tell him to go sit on his fanny and just stop being naughty. :) 16:43:25 I have a problem with girls..especially irish ones. 16:43:35 The problem is that I like 'em. 16:43:41 Argh... loud british news guy on CNN, annoys the hell out of me... he's just so pretenscious, that I want to smack him up side the head to shut him up. But then I just end up chaning to the other news networks. 16:44:00 irish guys... they don't do it for me. 16:44:05 oh yeah what is his name...forget 16:44:16 Classy British gals... they do it. 16:44:28 les, you know who I'm talking about though right? 16:44:38 yeah 16:44:39 the CNN british correspondant... 16:44:57 yeah I know of him but forgot his name 16:45:31 Who cares for his name. 16:45:44 hrm no girls here..with teeth anyway 16:46:05 les... you probably need to move to a city where there's more diverse of a gene pool. 16:46:40 no diverse gene pool here FOR SURE 16:46:56 aw nah I will stay here 16:47:02 inherited farm 16:47:08 owe no money 16:47:15 plenty of land 16:48:16 I would like a liitle condo or something in fl for the winter 16:48:22 winter is bad here 16:48:34 I grew up in fl 16:48:39 and my kids are there 16:49:43 I wanted to go down and rent a houseboat this winter but was too busy with work 16:49:47 also... 16:50:08 the marina no longer exists...it was totally trashed last summer 16:51:00 oh well 16:51:01 hmm. and your boat wouldn't be? 16:51:12 this is sad. 16:51:15 what boats? 16:51:16 heh 16:51:24 I asked out a girl, that I can't remember her name... I think it's Michelle. 16:51:36 she told me her name months and months ago. 16:51:36 no boats no docks no trees 16:51:50 sounds like a shit hole... where there's no trees. 16:51:58 i need trees... something other than flat bushes. 16:52:04 asked here out and forgot her name...haha that's funny 16:52:16 no. it was forget her name. but ask her out anyways. 16:52:20 plenty of trees here 16:52:30 10,000 or so on the property? 16:52:40 heh. 16:52:47 I've got not so many. 16:53:13 My cousin and I have a woodmiser sawmill 16:53:14 I've got 6 in the backyard, and 4 in the front. 16:53:18 pretty handy 16:53:30 for your own lumber? 16:53:42 it is 25 hp with full hydraulics 16:53:44 yeah 16:54:17 it cuts a 16 foot plank in about 10 seconds or so 16:54:32 not as fast as a big mill 16:54:36 heh, and you need it to go that fast because? 16:54:37 heh 16:54:41 but fast enough 16:55:20 well 1000 bd ft is a fairly easy day with it 16:55:34 wet wood is heavy though 16:55:47 I buy mine from home depot. :) 16:56:07 I like free. 16:56:18 well kinda...the mill does have upkeep 16:56:30 not much 16:56:46 blades and guides 16:56:51 les, so you think I should shrink fit the collars into the extension, isntead of cutting a thread on the extension? 16:56:58 hit a nail....there goes $40 16:56:59 the one by the collet head? 16:57:26 if you're cutting your own lumber, how would they have nails? 16:57:33 I would shrink fit and pin it i think 16:57:48 most trees have rocks and nails in the wood 16:57:53 and bullets 16:58:24 les, if I pin it... I won't be able to get longer end mills in. 16:58:24 we have a metal detector though 16:58:30 aren't bullets like ether lead or copper... those would be soft enough to cut through. 16:58:36 yeah 16:58:45 not a nail I wouldn't think... but hey. 16:58:51 what do I know, I'm a city boy 16:58:54 understand about the pinning 16:59:24 les, pardon? 16:59:36 that the extension is hollow 16:59:46 yes, the extension is hollow. 16:59:48 so forget pinning 17:00:05 I'm about to just REMAKe the extension. 17:00:19 rayh has quit 17:00:20 I've got a 3/4" dia steel rod... which I could just remake the whole thing. 17:00:28 I still bet that the shank is hardened 17:01:01 I can grind threads..but it is slow 17:01:05 I'll call the manufacturer up. 17:01:43 I am going to guess...RC 50-55 17:02:09 we'll see 17:02:16 back to the shop for a bit 17:02:49 I'll be doing the same after I find out. 17:03:42 post it when you do 17:03:46 later 17:05:26 41-40 17:12:15 the guy's saying it's from like RC 35-40 17:12:32 and my runout on this will be like huge... a couple of thou supposedly. 17:16:38 this sucks. 17:21:50 picnet has joined #emc 17:50:04 LES! I found out the stuff... sweet. ER16... found a distributor that makes their own. 17:50:43 back 17:51:04 http://www.usshoptools.com/current_year/products_sitemap/Files%20For%20Al%20APR%2020/PDFS_CURRENT_YEAR_120_180/PGS_159.pdf 17:51:10 solid, no through hole. 17:51:20 35-40 4140 is not too bad 17:51:22 I'm looking at it, and hoping to have a collar on one end. 17:51:37 no, it's completely machinable. 17:51:39 Idon't understand the runout bit 17:52:13 the manufacturer told me that I'll have like a runnout on the endmill from the crappiness of the collet design will be huge. 17:52:21 hmm 17:52:30 it's ment for drilling, milling in tight spots, not precision milling which I'll need. 17:52:38 ok 17:52:46 well an er then 17:52:50 they guy's saying, yeah, "I don't recommend it" 17:52:59 http://www.usshoptools.com/current_year/products_sitemap/Files%20For%20Al%20APR%2020/PDFS_CURRENT_YEAR_120_180/PGS_159.pdf <-- look. 17:53:03 CHEAP! 17:54:54 yeah 17:55:03 solid shaft? 17:55:09 solid shaft yeah. 17:55:56 well, that's what the guy said on the phone. 17:56:07 I'm just seeing if they have a collar or not before I buy it. 17:58:23 just remember....shafts may be +0/ - something 17:58:33 and you need +.0002 17:58:36 picnet has quit 17:58:41 yeah... this is why I haven't bought it yet. 17:59:01 if they're solid... think I could flick it down on my lathe? 17:59:22 depends have a tool post grinder? 17:59:31 yes. 17:59:42 yeah np then 17:59:44 never have used it yet. 17:59:56 what kind? dumore? 18:00:02 schaublin. 18:00:08 ok 18:00:08 5K rpm. 18:00:17 schaublin for a schaublin lathe. 18:00:37 have wheel dresser and stuff? 18:00:47 no, but that stuff I can buy. 18:00:50 those are cheap. 18:00:51 yeah 18:01:05 I don't know the proper method to grind stuff. 18:01:14 I would take a little as possible 18:01:25 like 1" down to 25 mm 18:01:38 what other good combinations are there... 18:01:57 I was thinking 3/4 down to 19mm 18:02:01 19.05mm to 19.00mm 18:02:27 btw... I can't measure anything smaller than 0.001" really... my calipres are cheap shit. 18:03:09 19 is not a standard bore though 18:03:19 15, 17, 20, 25 18:03:31 5/8 down to 15 looks good 18:04:02 3/4 down to 17 ok 18:04:47 hey buy some of those cheap $10 carbide tipped micrometers 18:05:01 They are usually pretty accurate 18:05:14 I use them for general shop use 18:05:27 I have standards and can check them 18:05:47 worst error is .0002 in any I have seen 18:05:55 $10? where? 18:05:56 and you can dial that out 18:06:10 let me get you a link 18:06:35 gotta remember 0.0002" is easily changed with temperature. :( 18:08:47 an0n has joined #emc 18:09:01 * Phydbleep wanders back from unconciousness... 18:09:01 http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=203&PARTPG=INLMK3 18:09:05 hello everyone 18:09:08 an0n is now known as anonimasu 18:09:10 these have insulated handles 18:09:12 hi 18:09:17 les: What's the leadscrew pitch for the cnc unit you'er making? 18:09:17 but yeah watch the temp 18:09:56 it would be fast....prob 2 turns/rev or so 18:10:04 duh 18:10:10 turns per inch 18:10:18 2 TPI? 18:10:21 turns per rev is always one haha 18:10:48 yeah 2 or 3...around there 18:11:14 so 60-90 IPM for a max move speed. 18:11:32 could go 5 in a smaller machine 18:11:55 no..I need 1000 ipm 18:12:10 kinda fast! 18:12:11 les jet pack cnc huh? 18:12:29 This is the $10/channel encoders. 18:12:44 1000 is not at all uncommon these days 18:12:52 ^_^ 18:12:58 it depends though 18:13:26 1000 is of little use on a smaller machine that does have a lot of spindle power 18:14:21 typically with wood you get about 100-150 ipm per hp 18:14:21 les: These are full control cutting moves, every step counted and reported. 18:14:27 something like that 18:14:44 for foam 300+ 18:14:55 yes 18:15:23 large machines actually commonly cut mdf at 800-1200 ipm 18:15:29 but 18:15:49 you need 20 hp or so for a thru cut in 3/4 mdf 18:16:00 So a hobbyist should be happy with 60ipm. :) 18:16:09 sure 18:16:45 60 ipm would usually not tax say a 1 hp router cutting hardwood 18:16:49 les MDF is that dense? 18:16:58 The machine you're building is a 20cm (inch?) cube? 18:17:05 it's heavy yeah 18:17:24 at the moment considering...not building 18:17:26 les but 20HP ? 18:17:47 20 inch working area for the smallest 18:18:02 Yeah, MDF has all the worst qualities of plastic, wood and cat-piss.... 18:18:24 spindle would be 3 hp or so I guess 18:18:40 so 300 ipm cuts in wood 18:18:54 and 1000 in foam would be possible 18:19:11 need .2-.5g accel 18:19:22 and... 18:19:29 you'd have to velocity ramp with that or it'll eat the machine. 18:19:30 corner slowdown. 18:19:43 emc does not have that and it's a concern 18:20:00 les jet pack and paarachut CNC'ing again? 18:20:05 heh 18:20:08 emc doesn't need it the way I'm thinking of. 18:20:42 it does not need it on a bridgeport or something 18:21:02 high speed routing a bit different 18:22:37 Hehehe... I know... I have a complex pattern I need routed in 1" aluminum plate.. Not a straight line to be found anywhere in the pattern.. 18:24:11 hm, that wouldnt be a problem really 18:24:12 :) 18:24:46 It need to be routed at about 2ipm to get a good finish. 18:25:06 2ip,?! 18:25:08 heh 18:25:32 that's hobby speed.. 18:25:39 Air intake manifold for a gas-turbine. :) 18:26:03 if you are producing 40 per day of thoose.. 18:26:13 I thought 18ipm was hobby speed. ??? 18:26:23 no idea really 18:26:25 yeah sure don't need to worry about accel and corners at that speed 18:27:43 but 2ipm is slow.. 18:28:03 calculate the require accel for a 2" circle at 10 ipm 18:29:08 les: Well, What i've got is this.. You can have it for <$50/channel, 4096 ppr, 120V 10A, @ a rotational rate of 2000 degrees/second (18ipm with a 20tpi leadscrew) or $100/channel for 10240 ppr, 10,000 deg/sec rotation. 18:29:53 sounds neat except for encoder rate 18:30:10 lets see I need 16 ips 18:30:19 32 rps 18:30:32 times 1000 or so 18:30:54 32k pps before quad interpolation 18:31:15 somewhere in that range 18:31:46 many readers can do 250k pps 18:33:50 .001" repeatability needs about .0001" encoder pulse spacing 18:33:57 the old ten to one rule 18:34:01 * Phydbleep thinks the 2 tpi leadscrews may be a bit steep. 18:34:19 they can be 18:34:39 shorter ballscrews can turn faster and be finer pitch 18:34:47 finer pitch is cheaper 18:34:56 5tpi is about the cheapest 18:35:55 let me check hiwin a sec 18:36:05 les, those aren't $10. 18:36:35 Me personally I'd run at least 10/1 .. Should give 0.0002 deg repeatability per rev. 18:37:55 That's 5x samples for 0.001 18:38:49 les, You're not trying to do something silly and precision machine mdf are you? 18:38:59 heh. 18:39:22 hmm HIWIN 1cm/turn looks fine 18:39:47 and yeah....cutting wood to .001 haha 18:39:55 Imperator_ has joined #emc 18:40:06 some wood and plastic work actually need that 18:40:12 * Phydbleep can see it now.. 1 part in the freezer, 1 part in the oven.. Press fit with MDF... OY! :) 18:40:16 repeatability, not accuracy 18:40:53 Repeatability is 0.0002 deg/rev. 18:41:34 mill some .001" deep groove in a piece of wood or plastic...you will see that it is quite rough! 18:42:57 so if you are facing something and have under .001 repeatability it can take a HUGE amount of sanding to get the gouges out 18:43:14 try iy you'll see 18:43:41 it 18:44:32 * Phydbleep figures out the carriage movement for 0.0002 degrees of rotation on a 10tpi leadscrew.. 18:44:54 "Squat all".. :) 18:45:02 Hehehe... :) 18:46:48 not much heh 18:47:07 I think that will qualify for repeatability. 18:47:38 When I jog my big machine in .0001 increments it moves about every other time 18:47:44 les - what's your closest more-or-less major airport? 18:47:47 stick slip 18:47:55 .1 = 360deg. .01=36deg 0.001=3.6deg 0.0002=.72deg. 18:48:30 SWP: Hartsfield atlanta...would like you to come down! 18:48:31 I could just get that 0.72degrees on my 5phase stepper. 18:48:44 I would like to - just not sure if I can schedule it ATM 18:48:50 ok 18:49:00 Haven't been to ATL since the '96 olympics 18:49:05 I'd visit, but les says the women there don't have teeth. 18:49:11 some do 18:49:16 I am 130 miles nw of hartsfield 18:49:21 This should be 0.00002" carriage movment per step @ 10tpi. 18:50:08 I'd love to see your big router, and also brainstorm on the little guy 18:50:08 right...no teeth...well I take that back. Some do have teeth...but they come out at night. 18:50:18 Yes 18:50:19 (though I'm not independently wealthy yet :) ) 18:50:23 It's fun 18:50:40 dangerous too considering the money I may spend 18:50:47 yeah 18:50:51 I know the feeling 18:50:55 just looked at cnn and the market is crappy 18:51:06 how long is that going to go on? 18:51:15 You can send it to me for safe-keeping if you're afraid you'll spend it all. :) 18:51:24 haha 18:51:41 * Phydbleep will only spend half of it. :) 18:51:45 * SWP_Away is away again - see ya 18:52:12 * A-L-P-H-A slaps SWP_Away around a bit with a large trout 18:52:16 huh? 18:52:22 how'd that get typed? 18:52:22 * Phydbleep abuses A-L-P-H-A with a rudely shaped turnip. 18:52:30 no, seriously... I was trying to type something serious. 18:52:35 I was trying to type: 18:52:54 * Phydbleep tries to type too.. 18:52:59 * SWP_Away too 18:53:04 oops 18:53:06 so the standard sized metric bearing are of the following bores: 10 12 15 17 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 18:53:13 yeah - that's close :) 18:53:24 yup 18:53:39 if I wanted to slap you... I'd do it with your sister under that she left last night. :) 18:53:50 underware 18:53:57 heh 18:53:58 heh that LAST the effect completely. :( 18:54:01 LOST. 18:54:05 which sister forgot her underwear? ;) 18:54:07 omg... I give up... I can't type. 18:55:06 Muwahahaha... Another poor unsuspecting soul has fallen prey to keyboard psychosis.. 18:56:18 gee has happy hour started on the east coast? 18:56:30 no. 18:56:41 not for another 49 minutes. 18:56:44 oh. pity. 18:56:44 5pm+ 18:56:47 Happy hour ended on the east coast? That's news to me.. 18:57:29 if I drove downtown... I could have drinks for like $2CDN/each... but alas... I'm not in a drinking mood. 18:57:45 I'm just a little peturbed that I bought something I didn't need to. 18:58:03 What if I herebye declare that the weekend has officially begun? 18:58:14 A-L-P-H-A: Animal, vegetable or mineral? 18:58:48 mineral. metal. precision drill chuck, and now a DA300 extension collet. 18:58:51 les: Everone buggers off for a pint? 18:58:54 sell it again on ebay 18:59:05 heh yeah 18:59:09 I'm gonna keep the drill chuck. I'll sell the DA300. 19:00:18 anyway I am still on semi holiday 19:00:31 I got bored so am working on some stuff. 19:02:03 Yeah, Everyone thinks global domination is fun till it's time to do the paperwork.. Then nobody wants to take care of it.. 19:03:45 oops...just remembered I got an email with questions from the UI senior project... 19:03:55 I had better call them. 19:04:06 It's billable time too. 19:04:09 bbl 19:09:03 anonimasu has quit 19:13:44 an0n has joined #emc 19:13:55 an0n is now known as anonimasu 19:17:01 the weekend? why that starts on Wednesday! 19:22:04 pfred1: I avoid the rush and start on Sunday night. :) 19:22:21 oh that's recovery day for me 19:22:30 picnet has joined #emc 19:22:44 right now i have to map out the yard sales I plan on hitting tomorrow 19:23:08 * pfred1 wants to make someone else's trash his treasure! 19:23:33 pfred1: Yuo should come buy my backyard. 19:23:43 Garage Sale = Garbage Sale 19:23:53 oh look a garbage sale! 19:24:01 * Phydbleep has junque not garbage. 19:24:12 ah junque? 19:24:32 yes i am a purveyor of fine junque 19:25:12 2kW DC motors, Golfcart parts, welder parts, compressor parts.. 19:25:15 I just got done fixing up some classic junque I'd had here aging for a while now 19:25:50 I had this shelf unit under my poorch for I donno maybe 25 years? well it'd rotted out pretty nicely 19:26:11 so I decided to haul it out and cut out the bad rot and weld in some new metal to it 19:26:15 Rats.. That's right.. pfred1 is in New Jersey.. Too far to drive for a yard sale. 19:26:26 the thing has just been sinking into the mud 19:26:41 the back had lost 16 inches best as I could figure 19:26:55 least i think the thing used to be 7 feet tall ... 19:27:00 pfred1: Get a shovel and perform mud removal? 19:27:12 oh yeah I got lots of shovels 19:27:30 and the technical term for mud removal is "mucking" 19:27:46 I have professionally mucked around some in my time 19:28:08 * Phydbleep is tempted to sneak up on the 50 foot lumberjack statue with a "Got Wood?" sign.. 19:28:27 s/oo/ee/ 19:28:49 No, That's for the 50 foot rasta. :) 19:28:56 lol 19:29:10 hmm i thought toking that stuff made you small? 19:29:14 haha... what's I say about NJ a few hours ago. 19:29:21 least that's what Steve Martin told me once 19:29:50 Steve was talking about nose-candy. 19:30:26 * Phydbleep is old enough to remember that act when it was new. 19:31:09 well you can smoke nose candy too that's my preferred method at anyrate 19:32:31 Bleargh!.. I agree with the easy legal sub for that.. Burn a $100 bill and shove a brake hone dipped in tabasco up your nose.. 19:33:44 hmm if it has a burn like that must be crank in your area 19:34:10 Dunno, I'm just working from a description of the effects. 19:34:34 * Phydbleep avoids white powders like the plague.. 19:34:48 heh 19:34:51 Mmmmmmmmm powered plague 19:34:59 In fact.. I'd rather have the plague. 19:35:19 yeah if the powder is white it's no good 19:35:33 It's ten till five but since I officially declared that the weekend has begun....pwshhh goes the beer can pop top! 19:35:35 cheers. 19:35:38 off yellow now you have something there! 19:35:38 white, pink, yellow, blue.. I avoid them all. 19:36:01 I'll drink beer in a can when they can Sam Adams 19:36:43 ah a sam adams fan 19:36:49 abit sweet for me 19:36:58 but it is good beer. 19:36:59 if I was gay he'd be my gay lover! 19:37:15 hmm he makes lots of different kinds 19:37:20 bmph haw 19:37:21 which one's too sweet for you? 19:37:31 sam 19:37:43 well he makes a lager an ale a seasonal 19:38:02 heck he makes one beer it's $2,000 a bottle! 19:38:09 I still have not started next batch 19:38:11 I haven't had that one yet 19:38:28 but something tells me it may just be something special 19:38:47 I think I will go half rice, half pale malt 19:39:00 know what's good beer in a can? 19:39:08 them Guinesses with the whizzers in them 19:39:16 man that stuff is good! 19:39:35 hmm need nitrogen to pressurize that stuff 19:39:45 that's what teh whizzer does i think 19:39:51 oh 19:40:01 never had it in a can so don't know 19:40:08 least i hope it's not a dead rat that's inside the can 19:40:08 pfred1 needs to learn about beer.... that black irish stuff isn't. 19:40:13 yeah it's horrible bottled 19:40:25 paul_c you need vise grips 19:40:34 beer in cans? BLASPHEMY! 19:40:37 so as you can pull the needle that's jambed up your ass out! 19:41:02 guinesss != beer. 19:41:12 guinesss == old sump oil. 19:41:13 yeah yeah it's stout it's all beer to me 19:41:17 well...I just blasphemed 19:41:33 will you find it in your heart to forgive me? 19:41:41 * Phydbleep has learath silly-stringed at the stake for heresy. 19:41:48 ??? 19:41:52 we used to drink Olympia in a can when we could get it for $4 a case 19:41:56 * Phydbleep has les silly-stringed at the stake for heresy. 19:41:59 les you must now drink 5 kegs before midnight for forgiveness 19:42:12 it's the water! 19:42:18 yes father 19:42:37 Ewww... Water.. Fish fornicate in that stuff.. 19:42:44 we used to drink this swill out of PA but ever since the microbrewery craze it's ogtten too expensive now 19:42:57 Yeuling 19:43:06 we used to pay like $6 a case for it 19:43:23 you can make really good beer for almost nothing 19:43:47 yeah we had dreams of brewing our own beer but that never happened 19:44:00 lagers take a long time though...have to cold age a month or so 19:44:12 Hehehe.. I used to buy Rainier for $3/case for revenge purposes... 19:44:28 damn $3 a case? Sign me up! 19:44:41 pfred1 <--- beer slut 19:44:45 Feed a pit-bull a case of cheap beer and a dozen pickled eggs. :) 19:44:47 cheapest rice beer is $10/case down here 19:45:02 pfred1: 1986.. 19:45:30 Phydbleep can't say as i can recall very much from that year 19:45:48 lets see 4 years out of high school what was i doing? 19:45:50 * Jymmm lol @ pfred1 19:46:04 more like what wasn't I doing be a much shorter list 19:46:05 pfred1: 1986 in Vancouver WA.. Buy Rainier off the loading dock @ the brewery. 19:46:56 back then we'd go into NYC 3 times a day just because we thought the ride was fun or something 19:46:59 1986? gawd 19:47:08 I remember that year 19:47:14 les: Yes my son? 19:47:19 heh 19:47:37 that was the year I stopped being an engineer for a while I guess 19:47:38 * Phydbleep is an ordained minister after all.. 19:47:41 the 80's rocked we didn't realize it at the time but man we had more fun than the hippies did in the 60's 19:47:59 hey i'm a hippie 19:48:16 we had an awful lot of fun... 19:48:17 I was a little young in the 60's but i vaguely remember them 19:48:31 by the 80's we had it down to a science 19:48:46 in the 60's you guys were experimenting 19:48:52 heck we knew the results! 19:49:04 for me 80's was work work work spend spend spend 19:49:22 yeah i wish I had something to show for what i spent spent spent on 19:49:37 buy big house. buy fancy car. make babies. 19:49:40 pfred1: Welcome to the club. 19:49:58 Phydbleep I guess i got a lot of blurred memories today 19:50:12 not me. 19:50:27 give me a year...I'll tell you what I was doing 19:51:47 didn't one of the Shuttles blow up in 1986? 19:51:58 I'm trying to remember something from that year 19:52:02 yeah I think challenger 19:52:21 man from 85 to i donno what i can't remember much at all today really 19:52:27 asdfqwega has joined #emc 19:52:30 1986 I bought one of those new funny looking fords 19:52:36 called taurus 19:52:38 a Probe? 19:52:43 oh a Tortise 19:52:47 yup 19:52:49 a Ford Tortise 19:52:51 Don't worry pfred1... Reagan couldn't remember the 080's either. 19:52:57 looked real funny back then 19:53:04 yeah i remember trickle down economics 19:53:07 son was born in 1986 too 19:53:15 we were like what's this mean the rich people are going to piss on us? 19:53:23 heh 19:53:32 which they pretty much did 19:53:52 I threatened to quit from work that year. 19:53:58 got a promotion. 19:54:03 * Phydbleep did not know before that time that piss has lumps.. 19:54:16 today they'd be like you sure you remember your way to the door? 19:54:31 Hmm...talk of politics 19:54:32 Naw not at all 19:54:39 * asdfqwega sets /ignore 19:55:06 just find someone dumb enough to let you become indespensible 19:55:08 http://www.whoshouldyouvotefor.com 19:55:18 ah someone that just pops into a chan reads a few lines and *thinks* they know what the thread is about 19:55:22 too bad they're wrong 19:56:05 beer, piss, babies & the 80's 19:56:07 pfred1: So,she's on her back on the couch and you've got her legs up on the mantle.. 19:56:37 Phydbleep is the fire raging? 19:56:53 Sorry.. Monty Python flashback.. :) 19:56:59 will I be yelling hot nuts anytime soon? 19:57:04 ROFL! 19:57:22 logger_aj, bookmark 19:57:22 See http://193.226.12.129/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-04-15#T19-57-22 19:58:48 yeah I think the 80's were a whole lot of fun today 19:59:04 tho at the time I don't think i realized it all the time 19:59:37 I guess being 16 to 26 in them helped for me 20:00:13 pfred1: Born in '64? 20:00:17 yup 20:00:36 Hehehe... 12/27 here.. :) 20:00:57 rayh has joined #emc 20:01:29 Phydbleep so I guess the 80's were your heyday too then? 20:02:47 anonimasu has quit 20:02:55 Not really.. I went from $3/hour to $8, $16, $32 and back down to $5/hr. 20:04:08 Phydbleep hey we didn't really need much money to have fun back then 20:05:05 pfred1: The 8/16/32 was in Alaska and was just enough to pay the bills. 20:05:07 I went from 0.40 to ridiculus and back. Wife asks if I've made 0.05 on EMC. 20:05:35 * Phydbleep sends rayh $0.25... 20:05:54 rayh you do EMC to make money? 20:06:20 rayh me I'm just trying to keep EMC from costing me too much money 20:06:26 I was disabled some a while back and got into emc to pass the time. 20:06:40 I retrofit now and do make a few dollars on it. 20:07:26 * Phydbleep wonders what granite block cradek is hiding under. 20:07:43 ah maybe the weather is nice where they're at too 20:07:58 It is wonderful here. 20:08:04 the weather is just coming around here 20:08:12 it could stand to be a little warmer 20:08:24 but it's not freeze your backside off anymore 20:08:42 73 here.. hi today 75, lo tonite 51. 20:08:57 yeah I think we may have hit 60 today 20:09:08 tomorrow is supposed to be a little nicer 20:09:19 good yard saling weather i hope! 20:09:31 Of course a week ago it was 35 and pouring rain/snow/sleet/hail.. 20:09:38 I'm going to be plying the shoals of many a yard tomorrow 20:10:01 Ice went off the lake wednesday. 20:10:05 looking for the "Deal of the Season" 20:10:23 everyyear now i don't feel like it's complete without one super find 20:10:49 last year I'd have to give it to my Radial Arm Saw for $20 20:11:03 tho the Boston Acoustics speakers for free are up there too 20:12:13 Les : are you around? 20:12:27 gezr everyone knows Les is a square 20:12:36 heh 20:12:41 yeah around 20:12:45 hahaha, good he appears to be looking 20:12:52 * Phydbleep thought les was more of a tall skinny thing.. 20:12:53 no you're a square peg in a round hole don't lie! 20:13:05 les : what do you think about the miller dynasty 200 or whatever that thing is? 20:13:13 only one picture of me on the website 20:13:25 gezr it's al lthat and a bag of chips don't you know? 20:13:51 dynasty 200 hmm don't know 20:13:57 gezr is it a welder? 20:13:57 mig or tig? 20:14:03 get a Lincoln 20:14:09 pooh 20:14:15 lincoln is what the pros choose 20:14:20 les one of the new all inverter powered on any line power 200amp ac/dc tig 20:14:35 lincoln is owned by miller, and as of late is not doing so well 20:14:48 ahem ok. I work for miller's parent company (some) haha so a bit biased 20:14:51 yeah see? miller even ruined lincoln! 20:15:05 * pfred1 has a Miller ... 20:15:05 no lincoln didnt advance the technology 20:15:15 yeah htey just invented it 20:15:18 hobart yes . licoln...hmm 20:15:20 pfred1 Miller tools, not miller beer 20:15:20 les: Send me a TIG for 'evaluation' :) 20:15:45 les : I was just wondering, it doesnt have a transformer in it and weighs 45lbs, mfg list is 3.2k 20:15:47 Miller called withsome work after my holiday ends 20:15:55 welding helmets. 20:15:57 Jymmm http://69.249.77.18:10000/wood/cshop/shp1/shp1-009.jpg 20:16:01 a Miller! 20:16:21 was out there the past few days using it too for a change 20:16:52 i have to go now, I was just wondering, im going fishing this weekend 20:17:09 bass? 20:17:17 pfred1 : http://www.jimsheaphotography.com/variety/images/miller-beer.jpg 20:17:29 Jymmm I can't stand Miller beer 20:17:29 hybrid, strippers, and hopefuly more walleye then anything 20:18:10 Jymmm whoosh gives me the chills just thinking about it 20:18:12 walleye that far south 20:18:14 hmm 20:18:19 didn't know that 20:18:35 les : the possibaility exists to catch the world record where ill be fishing 20:18:44 wow 20:18:52 have fun 20:18:55 gezr got a fish finder? 20:19:09 pfred1 : yeah, 20:19:14 lorrance I think 20:19:16 gezr then you stand some chance 20:19:23 just wanting to go fishing with ma dad 20:19:25 My son-in-law and I had a contest off the dock one evening. 20:19:35 when we go fishing we're always successful 20:19:41 but we only go out to catch a buzz 20:19:42 caught 38 legal walleye. 20:19:58 He caught two more than i but I got the biggest. 20:20:06 fish actually biting cuts into our drinking time and it's annoying 20:20:18 pfred1 you mean there's another reason to go fishing besides sitting around getting shit faced? 20:20:31 Jymmm if there is I haven't found it yet :) 20:22:22 The first time i went fishing at 8yo, I caught a 10" rainbow trout with a line on a stick (cause my uncle wouldn't give me a pole - fucker), he was seriously envious and serves him right. 20:22:37 a fish? what are we going to do with that? the coolers are all full of beer! 20:22:38 haven't caught a fush since =) 20:22:47 a fish either =) 20:23:19 Jymmm well there's a rule about a line on a pole tho under 12 you can fish without a license anyways 20:23:37 I don't think this is the forum to get into the line and pole rule :) 20:24:19 Jymmm: Did you put a hook on the end of the line? 20:24:35 rayh yep, and a worm too 20:24:40 rayh yeah they let them people evne use a hook 20:25:06 the law is as long as the line is shorter than the pole 20:25:30 And no fish! 20:25:35 pfred1 well he was a cheap batard anyway 20:25:52 Skinny worms? 20:27:26 gotta go out for a while. catch yo all later. 20:27:31